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Visit tesla013's column >>

TESLA013

Just this guy.........
Articles Posted: 28  Links Seeded: 0
Member Since: 6/2010  Last Seen: 5/10/2012

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The President is Coming and He's Pissed!!

Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:05 PM EDT
politics
By tesla013
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Impressive. My first thought after last night's speech by our President. He laid out some good ideas, and I can see how he was elected to the highest office in the land. I listened with interest, but alas, with little hope. Because you see I have been watching these speeches for nigh on 35 years now and I am aware that politicians are master speakers with good prep and the right venue. But I did watch very carefully, one familiar with human nature can pick up a lot from what one sees. And what I saw prevented my hopes from rising.

 President Obama was angry, one could easily tell, very angry it seemed to me. But as the cameras panned across the audience, across congress, the cabinet, and others, what I saw was polite disinterest. And I saw great age and fear in many eyes. I saw others whose features were stamped with pure self-interest. The three men whom were the camera's main focus also revealed some things to me. The attire of all three could have easily paid for several months of my life. Inconsequential I know, and yet... Joe Biden, who hence forth shall forever be known to me as the Grinning Idiot, has a great set of dentures. John Boner, arrogant prick extraordinaire, is more brown skinned than the President. I see some carcinoma in his future. Barrack Obama looked rode hard and put up wet. I saw Hillary and she looked about the same. She did not look like she had a presidential run in her anyway. I saw Tim Gietner(could care less if I spelled that one right), one of the architects of America's economic collapse, sitting there free as a bird looking bored. And I was struck again by the great age in the room, some so enfeebled by it they could not stand for the many ovations. I was also reminded of a Catholic church service I was once attended out of curiosity. Up down, Up down, at least no one kneeled.

  I heard the President say things I could have said myself. I heard encouraging things. I heard rebuke for congress, that brought a smile. I heard nothing that sounded like the taking of responsibility by the President. I was not surprised by that. I heard good ideas that I have heard before, and the President made it clear that indeed I had. I heard a plea made demand for an end to the political "circus." And I saw Boner struggle mightily not to roll his eyes at every ovation. Have to give the man props for his show of self control.

  But here's the rub Mr.President. Politician has become a synonym for liar in this country. I am 45 years old sir, I have heard it all out of Washington, from Nixon to you, sir. If promises and good intentions from politicians were nickels we would have no national debt. I must say that I have never heard a President come as close as you did last night, to calling "Bull@!$%#." But talk is no longer enough. I understand you are pissed off, sir, we are too. Action is now required Mr.President. A lot is riding on you and on congress, and surprisingly I think some of you are aware of it, in the next year. If you fail us now I have an ugly feeling irreversible damage will be done to our country, our political system, and to our standing abroad.

 Finally Kudo's to the two gentlemen that were clearly sleeping, one of whom began his nap before the President even began speaking. At least you, sirs, used the time wisely. I hope, however, that your actions, or should I say, lack of animation is not an omen of things to come.

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tesla013

I can say that last night's speech moved me to do the dishes. So I can confirm at least one job created by the President.

Enjoy. CoH Please.

  • 24 votes
#1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:06 PM EDT
Marshall James

thats about all its going to create.

all he is doing is pushing off the debt onto his successors....

period.

  • 13 votes
#1.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:33 PM EDT
CaptainObviousSays

The President is Coming and He's Pissed!!

pissed? he is an idiot...

doing the same thing over and over expecting different results = insane

2012 will not be here soon enough

  • 12 votes
#1.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:16 PM EDT
owlsview

Captain, long time since I ran into you. I see you are still stating the obvious.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:26 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

AWERSOME article as always Tesla. :)

Joe Biden, who hence forth shall forever be known to me as the Grinning Idiot

LMAO!!! Perfect!!!

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:42 PM EDT
Randy McMurphy

all he is doing is pushing off the debt onto his successors....

Oh, you mean like Regan, Bush1 and Bush#2? Did any of them inherit a staggering loss of 9% of GDP just before they took office?

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:47 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

I just read Randy's post, and noticed I typed an R in awesome. lol Ooooooooops!!! ;)

Oh, you mean like Regan, Bush1 and Bush#2? Did any of them inherit a staggering loss of 9% of GDP just before they took office?

I don't know, but I know they didn't spend as much as Obama did. :P Out of curiousity, when can Obama start taking responsibility for this mess?

  • 9 votes
#1.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:51 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

P.S. For you Tesla, enjoy. :)

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:56 PM EDT
Randy McMurphy

Mary

How many people did he shoot in the face? :^P

Out of curiousity, when can Obama start taking responsibility for this mess?

Why is the right so sensitive about their calamities? Why wont they own anything? I faul the President for not coming up with the adequate stimulus, for allowing cons to cut it in half, but then we only though we lost 3.8% of gdp turns out Bush lost 9% of Gdp. How many of those have republicans inherited from Democratic administrations. In fact Republican administrations presided over all recessions over 3% in the last 100 years. why?

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:46 PM EDT
CaptainObviousSays

Oh, you mean like Regan, Bush1 and Bush#2? Did any of them inherit a staggering loss of 9% of GDP just before they took office?

so your whole argument is based on...

they screwed us before so why complain now....


really?

seriously.... really?


  • 10 votes
#1.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:50 PM EDT
Jimster

Check.

Got you both down as being against a payroll tax reduction and other Republican programs that were floated when the last stimulus package was being discussed.

You're so transparent.

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:10 PM EDT
Randy McMurphy

CaptainObviousSays
Oh, you mean like Regan, Bush1 and Bush#2? Did any of them inherit a staggering loss of 9% of GDP just before they took office?

so your whole argument is based on...

they screwed us before so why complain now....

No you must be in your own silly little world, I didn't say that I asked

a

Question?

Could

you

be

a

little

More..........Obtuse? Care to answer it?

really?

seriously.... really?

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:13 PM EDT
owlsview

Yawn.

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:34 AM EDT
Randy McMurphy

Good one .NEXT!

  • 1 vote
#1.13 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:52 AM EDT
Runner99

I'll answer it. Obama ran a campaign on hope and change. Why? Because he didn't see the issues he would be facing as the next President? Bull. He ran on hope and change because he did see the issues. As the sitting President, he promised to change our problems and give us hope. Still waiting.

  • 5 votes
#1.14 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:45 AM EDT
Roxanne2Sweet

Ever heard of the "filibuster"??

Because the last time I checked, we do not have the British parliamentary system where the POTUS' party takes all.

And we are never going to stop b*tching about how there's no money to fund our way out of our Cheney/Bush depression, until Republicans finally jettison Reaganomics; which they will never do.

And that's because the Republicans are the Party of No and the Party of Denial: climate science denial; evolution denial; default won't be catastrophic, denial; Reaganomis is Voodoo Economics, denial; etc etc; the list is endless.

David Stockman bombshell: How my Republican Party destroyed the American economy.

The “debt explosion has resulted not from big spending by the Democrats, but instead the Republican Party’s embrace, about three decades ago, of the insidious doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.”

Cue the FoxNews denunciations.

David Stockman, director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan, has dared to call out his own party for creating our current economic problems. His NYT op-ed, “Four Deformations of the Apocalypse,” begins:

IF there were such a thing as Chapter 11 for politicians, the Republican push to extend the unaffordable Bush tax cuts would amount to a bankruptcy filing.

Given our long-term deficit problem, Stockman said it is “unseemly for the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, to insist that the nation’s wealthiest taxpayers be spared even a three-percentage-point rate increase.”

UPDATE: Huffpost reports that in an interview today on NBC’s Meet the Press, “Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan said that the push by congressional Republicans to extend the Bush tax cuts without offsetting the costs elsewhere could end up being ‘disastrous’ for the economy.”

Here are some more excerpts from Stockman’s must-read piece:

  • 6 votes
#1.15 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:13 PM EDT
Roxanne2Sweet

Oh, and as regards the stimulus, you conservative and independent flat-earthers should check out the following 2 links. Pay particular attention to the final graph in the 2nd link. Its very easy to read:

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/09/did-the-stimulus-create-jobs/

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Three-Charts-To-Email-To-Y-by-Dave-Johnson-110829-565.html

  • 6 votes
#1.16 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT
SuperSaiyan

Out of curiousity, when can Obama start taking responsibility for this mess?

I have a question of my own. Out of curisoty, Mary J 0604, when can you and the far right acknowledge the opinions of the American people who clearly feel diffrently?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/april_2011/most_voters_still_blame_bush_recession_for_bad_economy (Most Voters Still Blame Bush Recession for Bad Economy)

According to the poll Obama only has a 37% approval rating on his handling of the economy. He scores even worse on the issue of the deficit with a 61% disapproval rating, but his favorable rating remains at 50%, and when asked if the economy is his fault, or he inherited it, 61% of those polled expressed the belief that the president inherited the economy.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/obama-republicans-recession

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/14/poll-americans-blame-bush-for-bad-economy-by-wide-margin/ (Poll: Americans blame Bush for bad economy by wide margin)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/62038.html (Poll: 51% still blame George W. Bush for economy)

  • 5 votes
#1.17 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:33 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

LOL, Roxanne and Super...y'all are Obamadots to the end...sad. He came out and gave another campaign speech on Thursday. One he had first mentioned in early in Aug and had built up since then as ..."the speech"! Ya know "The speech" that "I'll tell you all about in three weeks after my vacation - you poor little serfs..." During his speech he says "pass my bill over 20 times...well, what bill? Oh right, we don't know, but he's going to give us the details in "a few days"...LMBO.

  • 8 votes
#1.18 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:23 PM EDT
Runner99

@1.15. So what you are saying is that Obama, during his campaign, didn't realize how Congress works? The filibuster, really? This is something new? Come on, he promised hope and change all the while knowing the political climate in Washington....and he's unable to deliver because he's inept.

Now he's attempting to say the same thing. Pffft.

  • 7 votes
#1.19 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:26 PM EDT
Runner99

......and further more, he didn't completely own TARP but that didn't turn out too well. He does own the stimulus packages, and the end did not justify the means. Yes, Congress is to blame as well, but he had the power to Veto. Now here we are facing another spendtastic solution. I, for one, don't want to keep giving and giving and giving to failed attempts. Anyone who wishes to fund it can march right down to the IRS and donate, and put their names on a list as future donors. As far as solutions go...........get priorities in order..........quit the frivolous spending..........and learn to live with in the means we as tax payers can afford, not the other way around.

  • 7 votes
#1.20 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:44 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

I have a question of my own. Out of curisoty, Mary J 0604, when can you and the far right acknowledge the opinions of the American people who clearly feel diffrently?

SS....First of all, I am not far right. I'm right of center. To the second part of that question, I acknowledge the opinions of the left no matter how wrong and misinformed they are. :P

  • 5 votes
#1.21 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 AM EDT
SuperSaiyan

LOL, Roxanne and Super...y'all are Obamadots to the end...sad.

Wow, why am I not surprised that you refuse to acknowledge facts that disproves your assertions, vol fan in chatt, tn?

Also, what has the GOP done regarding jobs, especially since they ran on it?

To the second part of that question, I acknowledge the opinions of the left no matter how wrong and misinformed they are. :P

Wow, I guess the opinions of the American people(especially ones that are stated on a consistant basis) are "misinformed" when they don't agree with you, Mary J 0604.

  • 1 vote
#1.22 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:20 PM EDT
Extraterrestrial

SuperSaiyan

Wow, I guess the opinions of the American people(especially ones that are stated on a consistant basis) are "misinformed" when they don't agree with you,

You forget, the people who are disagreeing are also Americans! And the majority of them disagree with the Dems! In fact a lot of democrats are voting republican! I wonder why?

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/14/7752284-republican-wins-new-york-democratic-house-seat?

Perhaps some of the democrats are actually getting smarter here! Isn't Newsvine wonderful!?

  • 3 votes
#1.23 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:17 AM EDT
Mary J 0604

ET.... :)

(I decided not to bother to respond to that, but I am glad you did!! lol) And yes, it IS wonderful!! ;) The tides are turning! :)

  • 3 votes
#1.24 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:36 AM EDT
CaptainObviousSays

The tides are turning! :)


the liberal false sense of majority is crumbling before their eyes...

they completely do not get what 2010 was all about because 2008 convinced them everyone was liberal when Obama was elected...

newsflash... LOL

liberals are outnumbered by conservatives 2 to 1

that fact can only be ignored for so long


  • 2 votes
#1.25 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:56 AM EDT
Reply
owlsview

I must agree Tesla. The language of the room greatly overshadowed the President's attempted pep rally.

Even though we knew better, many of us hoped that we would actually get more from the President this time. As it turns out, we did know better.

  • 17 votes
#2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:29 PM EDT
clarke ong

What is it specifically that you think we should "get" from the president?

  • 12 votes
#2.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:34 PM EDT
tesla013

Perhaps something I did not expect clarke?

  • 14 votes
#2.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:38 PM EDT
sjayne2355

What is it specifically that you think we should "get" from the president?

His resignation would be nice for a start...

  • 23 votes
#2.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:39 PM EDT
clarke ong

I notice none of you can actually be specific about policy or particular actions. Just wondering if you really have anything to say other than "Obama bad"

Prove me wrong. Specifically you Tesla, you start out saying you thought it was impressive with some good ideas and then go on to lambast. If the ideas are good, then why wouldn't you support that?

  • 12 votes
#2.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:49 PM EDT
tesla013

I thought something I did not expect was fairly specific. But for example; Obama taking some of the responsibility for the monkey@!$%#ing that was the debt ceiling "crisis" or maybe saying that HE had not tried hard enough to get this economy rolling.

  • 16 votes
#2.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:52 PM EDT
tesla013

Perhaps you missed the line about promises and good intentions clarke?

  • 13 votes
#2.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:04 PM EDT
clarke ong

"tried hard enough to get the economy rolling"

Like how for instance? That is what I mean about short on specifics.

  • 7 votes
#2.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:10 PM EDT
Dog_Blue

Clark;

What is it specifically that you think we should "get" from the president?

Leadership. That is what he was elected to provide.

  • 17 votes
#2.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:12 PM EDT
clarke ong

Can you list the tools available to a president to "get the economy rolling"?

And again Dog Blue, thats vague and subjective. Give me a "he could have done thus or thus" with specifics please, instead of another "Obama bad" statement?

Say SOMETHING, in other words.

  • 12 votes
#2.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
tesla013

Taking some responsibility for the mess we are in is pretty damned specific clarke. Must I write the words for the man? And Dog Blue makes another fine statement Leadership would be nice, perhaps a bit less on the capitulation, some backbone in these negotiations with the gop.

  • 12 votes
#2.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:16 PM EDT
Dog_Blue

Enterprise its the tool that has worked best.

  • 8 votes
#2.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:18 PM EDT
greck

Leadership. That is what he was elected to provide.

Ok, well...great. Um....how are you defining leadership?

I think we can all agree that president Obama made a plan, laid out that plan, and is, above all else, excellent at getting people fired up to do stuff.

What specific qualities of a leader are you thinking he's lacking? The fact that you personally don't want to be on the team really doesn't count, IMO.

  • 13 votes
#2.12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:21 PM EDT
tesla013

A plan that he clearly stated was not his own but a combination of plans put forth by others from both parties ain't that right greck?

As for being on a team, lets be honest the only really constant we have had from this administration has been "It's all Bush's fault"

  • 13 votes
#2.13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:26 PM EDT
greg-709692

He could have delt with this first, before the speech.

Remember when you were in school and were required to do those presentation thingy's we always had to do. Image the grade you would have gotten if you just talked and had no information to back up your ...... Claim.

Obama did just that. Spouted "Feel Good" information, without making sure it could be done the way he said it could be done. I give him a "D" for at least getting up there.

He still needs backup from outside sources.

  • 18 votes
#2.14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:27 PM EDT
clarke ong

No, those aren't specifics in the pragmatic sense at all, they are vagueries. For instance, you say "taking responsibility for the mess we're in" but you provide no specific as to how he is responsible for "the mess we're in" or cite anything he could have done to remedy that.

You're basically using semantics to dodge the fact that you really don't know what you're talking about.

  • 13 votes
#2.15 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:36 PM EDT
greck

A plan that he clearly stated was not his own but a combination of plans put forth by others from both parties ain't that right greck?

Using the 4-3 defense and the flex defense primarily, including a nickel package, a dime package, etc. doesn't mean that a coach hasn't developed his own plan. President Obama put together a plan including separate elements that have been supported by both parties in the past, it's not like he just reached up onto a shelf in the oval office and grabbed the jobs creation cookbook; went and photocopied some stuff. His plan is to include things that people have already expressed support for in an effort to mitigate partisan bickering.

the only really constant we have had from this administration has been "It's all Bush's fault"

how many times did you hear that last night? If he stopped saying it, would you notice? Would that change your opinion of the president? Or would you just keep on saying "all he does is blame Bush" even after he stopped?

  • 6 votes
#2.16 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:38 PM EDT
tesla013

How about Capitulating without first using the weight of his office to turn the tide or without first going to the people clarke. It is fine to compromise but being a welcome mat for the gop is all he is looking like to this American.

  • 12 votes
#2.17 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:40 PM EDT
owlsview

Man I just hate waiting in line for my turn.

Clarke, I want real facts on paper, not continued rhetoric. He says a ton of good things, puts out a lot of "good sounding" ideas verbally. Ideas we can all agree with. He speaks them, but is not what he puts down on paper.

There are two tools available to the President that would help him tremendously. Honesty and transparency. Two of the verbal promises he made to us in his last campaign. Two tools he has chosen to ignore.

When he was confronted with his own written words in Obamacare he himself was forced to admit that he had lied verbally.

Hey, America I am your President and I have the budget we need for the next fiscal year.Not one single member of Congress voted for that foolish piece of dribble.

A real leader can admit his mistakes, apologize, take steps to correct them and move on.Leadership is not about disguising your mistakes with spin. Blaming others for everything that is wrong. Complaining that nobody will let you do anything.He has been doing this for close to three years. Obama is not a leader.

  • 17 votes
#2.18 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:42 PM EDT
clarke ong

What does that even mean Tesla? Those are your projected perceptions only, and they have no basis in any specific that you can actually bring to the conversation. Give me a specific.

Owl, what are you talking about "not what he puts down on paper"? Congress writes legislation Owl.

And again, "honesty and transaparency, 2 tools he has chosen to ignore" is no more than attempted character assassination by you.

  • 10 votes
#2.19 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:44 PM EDT
tesla013

From Obama none last night greck. From the talking heads on PBS directly after....... On NPR this morning..... I understand that he trying to avoid the partisan bickering, but he is looking and sounding like a whipped dog, "Is this ok guys or should I modify it some more??" @!$%# that, tell the GOP to go tan if they will not budge or compromise in America's favor. Use the power of the office to Stand and Fight for once.

clarke I am sorry hoss but I simply am at a loss to satisfy you. I cannot be more specific.

  • 7 votes
#2.20 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:44 PM EDT
clarke ong

Yeah I know.

"Use the power of the office to Stand and Fight for once" (meaningless)

By?

So, your suggestion is that he should vehemently oppose the G.O.P?

Listen to yourself man.

  • 7 votes
#2.21 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:55 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

Clarke, Geck you are both spot on ... this is just another GOTP poison pill article with only one goal ... to demean OUR President .....

don't bother to ask for any substance when there is none ... as you watch the comments they quickly evolve into what this thread is .. another Obama bashing party .... very poorly camouflaged vitriol ...

this time the GOTP has no where to hide from the American people ..... they can triple down or stand back and lose even more than they're going to already .... or cooperate and maybe, just maybe come out of 2012 with a few seats in the house and senate ... Americans are fed up with the GOTP and if they have to wait 14 months to see results they're going to be very angry .....

The losers include those who support the GOTP who aren't wealthy. The wealthy win either way .... just a few million dollars less in their offshore bank accounts. ;-)

  • 5 votes
#2.22 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:57 PM EDT
tesla013

clarke, I do not mean this as insult but you do understand the concepts behind leadership right? Lead by example, lead from the front, never ask others to do what you would not do yourself, those sorts of things.

Coral Atlas, you do not even know me and here you are telling everyone all about me. Stick to the topic and save your "street march" for your own seeds please, thank you. And if you watch the comments evolve you see they are more or less begging our president to lead us.

  • 16 votes
#2.23 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:59 PM EDT
tesla013

What @!$%#ing substance are speaking of Coral? Are you so blinded by hate of everyone with more than you that you cannot see the entire piece is about a lack of substance from the leaders of our country??

  • 13 votes
#2.24 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:04 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Tesla:

Coral is right. Dead right.

For you to claim that her comments are just motivated by envy, points out that your arguments are the ones with no substance.

  • 7 votes
#2.25 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:08 PM EDT
Truth Sleuth

I don't think the American people are too comfortable or too trusting to allow their representatives to pass a bill of such behemoth proportions considering the current size of the debt and considering that they're still reeling from the over-reach (and unknowns) of the health care bill. I don't even think a lot of Democrats will go for this bill. It's too politically risky for them in terms of next year's election. They haven't forgotten what happened last November, and the health care bill got the blame for a lot of it.

  • 9 votes
#2.26 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:09 PM EDT
tesla013

No Coral is not right blue. I am not a member of nor have I ever been a member of ANY @!$%#ing political party I have been NPA since before there was such a term.

As for the rest I will not allow Coral to come here and turn this into another protest rally. Coral is welcome to do that on Coral's on seeds.

  • 11 votes
#2.27 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:12 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

A protest rally?

Are you for real?

You are making claims about the substance of Obama's speech.

Coral is offering a dissenting view.

If you don't like it, maybe you should choose a different site to post your jaded opinion pieces.

  • 4 votes
#2.28 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:16 PM EDT
tesla013

No she is offering her usual diatribe about the GOP blue. I am familiar with Coral's work thank you.

  • 12 votes
#2.29 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:20 PM EDT
greg-709692

don't bother to ask for any substance when there is none

Seems the article is saying the same of the President. Great "Feel Good" Policy, but no proof it's gonna work the way he says it is. He doesn't even have that information yet. What's so hard to understand about that ?

The President even told you that in his speech. He still needs info from the New and Improved Uber Committee, and they've got their work cut for them finding 1 trillion in cuts for this "Feel Good" talk and he hasn't even finished his "Budget Plan" yet. He needs a few more weeks

Did any Liberal pay attention to the speech at all, or did they just soak up the "Feel Good" Parts so they could sleep better that night.

  • 13 votes
#2.30 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:21 PM EDT
teresa-498430

t....013, are you so blinded by hate that you can't think straight? I imagine that type of question is fair game on your articles since as moderator you set that type of tone and asked that type of question with this one:

What @!$%#ing substance are speaking of Coral? Are you so blinded by hate of everyone with more than you that you cannot see the entire piece is about a lack of substance from the leaders of our country?

Ya really should pay attention to the posts of the reasoned voices here. Seems you could learn something from Coral, Clark and Geck.

  • 6 votes
#2.31 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
tyler-1708225

#2.28 Have you ever been on one of Coral's seeds where he determines value according to his opinion only? You wouldn't last there if you have a differing opinion, so he should not expect anyone else to not protect their seeds too.

  • 9 votes
#2.32 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
greck

From Obama none last night greck. From the talking heads on PBS directly after....... On NPR this morning.....

it's good to see you're able to acknowledge that the president didn't blame Bush, but analysts do.

but he is looking and sounding like a whipped dog, "Is this ok guys or should I modify it some more??" @!$%# that, tell the GOP to go tan if they will not budge or compromise in America's favor. Use the power of the office to Stand and Fight for once.

here we just disagree. I took last night's speech as saying "here's something that you yourself advocated for just a couple of years ago on a silver platter." Basically daring congress to say they were either wrong a couple of years ago, or they're simply so unwilling to work together now out of sheer partisan hate. I thought he threw down the gauntlet in a pretty strong way.

I've said elsewhere that I kind-of wish he'd have just presented the liberal agenda and forced the republicans to fight for the tax cuts so he'd have more bargaining power and we'd have a more progressive piece of legislation in the end, though.

  • 6 votes
#2.33 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
owlsview

Hey Clarke do you have any knowledge about who can and can not write legislation? I don't think so.

You know, you can write a piece of legislation. If you know how. After writing it you take it to Congress find somebody to sponsor it and voila it gets presented for consideration. Special interest groups and lobbyists do it all the time.

Really Clarke before you use a topic for the purpose of debate you really should know something about the topic.

  • 14 votes
#2.34 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:23 PM EDT
Truth Sleuth

Why don't you guys just debate the points Coral brought up. He said the goal of the article was to bash the president, that it was thinly veiled vitriol.

Was that the goal?

I personally took it as a critique of the players in the room based on tesla's personal perceptions.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that wasn't his goal or the theme of the article at all...

  • 7 votes
#2.35 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:24 PM EDT
tesla013

teresa when I hear a reasonable voice I am always all ears.

  • 8 votes
#2.36 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:36 PM EDT
tesla013

My only goal was to present my own observations from last night Truth. And add a couple of allusions to issues that are near and dear to me. Which seem to have been missed by the left leaning here. I did not bash Obama in my piece despite what those who deify him are claiming . I merely called for less talk and more action.

But we are not debating Coral's points because this is not Coral's venue to vent her hate of the right. She does that well enough on her own pieces.

greck: That is what I came away thinking. Why I say he came closer than I have ever heard another president to calling out congress on their bull@!$%#.

  • 9 votes
#2.37 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:40 PM EDT
clarke ong

Oh great point Owl.

You know the gist of what I said.

Congress Congress Congress.

  • 4 votes
#2.38 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:44 PM EDT
Truth Sleuth

I'm left-leaning on a lot of issues myself, but I'm more right-leaning on fiscal matters. I thought Obama was excellent last night. I thought his speech was perfect and perfectly delivered. On its face, his words made perfect sense. But in politics that's largely irrelevant. The issues are experience and trust. The people learned a lesson from the health care bill (experience). And they don't trust Congress, or the President, to be good stewards of the people's money, or to do what they say they're going to do, or that their theories (jobs bills) will actually bear out in practice.

  • 10 votes
#2.39 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:46 PM EDT
tesla013

BINGO!!!! Truth Sleuth

  • 7 votes
#2.40 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:54 PM EDT
owlsview

According to Coral, any article not written by a liberal that contains Obama's name is designed to bash the President.

Pure and simple he wants it to get rowdy and redirect the focus of Tesla's article in the hopes of starting a shouting match. All he wants is an excuse to go running to the mods complaining about something a non liberal said.

Coral is an accomplished and active writer/seeder on the Vine. Also very cagey. Knows the value of baiting people into turning their articles from news to meta Very accomplished at it too.

Did you watch the debate? Did you pay any attention to the actions and expressions of the other people there? Tesla's description of the event is spot on. The President wasn't receiving any real support from either side of the aisle. Both sides hoped for more. Both sides were disappointed. Not just those dastardly Republicans.

  • 13 votes
#2.41 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:55 PM EDT
clarke ong

The point is that it is those 2 sides "hoping for more" who hold the power to do something about it.

They need to hope for more from themselves.

You've got Obama in the middle who has consistently called for discourse, maturity and copmpromise and been shut down all along, by a G.O.P who's supreme goal has been to make him as ineffectual as they can.

And you know it.

  • 5 votes
#2.42 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:12 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

I only heard bits and pieces...but what I did hear was nothing more than what we have done and heard before... spend more money...but it's not going to raise the deficit and debt because 70 years down the road we will pay it back *rolls eyes*.

Leadership means, for those of you who don't know, not acting better than other people, not demeaning other people; but rather, elevating other people, being a person of your word, putting yourself last, ...but Obama can't do that because he has not a friggin idea about leadership - which is why Team Obama had to come up with the slogan that he's "leading from behind". How ridiculous.

he acts like he's better than the rest - spending tens of thousands of dollars on a vacation (to which he is entitled), but it just smacks of in your face when millions are out of work, unable to even THINK about a vacation and are working two and three jobs (like myself) just to keep their head above water...

he demeans others especially those who don't agree with his policy...do we really need any more examples of this?

putting yourself last - could have unveiled this "plan" a long time ago but other things were more important - like his agenda. They wasted a whole year on that POC Obamacare...why didn't he worry about jobs then? Please don't tell us he passed the stimulus...that was a "not so shovel ready" job plan. Or again, when Obama thinks jobs are so important then waits a month before revealing his same ole plan?

Obama is all about Obama...sad, but true. And he is a terrible leader. He could use the books:

"The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership: Follow Them and People Will Follow You"


by John C. Maxwell

or

John P. Kotter "What Leaders Really Do"

  • 12 votes
#2.43 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:12 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

Once again all I hear is Obama this and Obama that ......

first he should be referenced as The President, MY President, YOUR President, OUR President .... something this society is forgetting ... thanks to the rude, angry, vile spewed forth from the right

does that make some here angry? ... if so that is too bad ...

..... to be sure there are similar remarks on the left ... but they are dwarfed by the amount of poison the right puts out FROM THE TOP ...

I can't expect frustrated Americans like those on the right here not to respond in like kind to the propaganda and hate speech put out by those in the right wing media like Fox, Limbaugh and even members of the GOTP in congress ....

it is only recently that other voices like Hoffa are finally rising to oppose this type of vitriol that has been a constant on the right since 2008

once again all here on the right talk about is that they don't like this President ... but not one shred of intelligent reasoning as to why ..... even those intellectually equipped sidestep the facts and conveniently label him inept and weak and ineffective ...

He is none of those and that will be proven by the history books yet to be written ..... not about his being black but about what he has already accomplished and hopefully will continue to accomplish in the years ahead.

I can't expect a society that destroys nature for profit and looks the other way to understand what motivates this President ... he doesn't need the money or the aggravation ... in fact I was fearful he would give the finger to all of us and not run for a second term ... and I wouldn't blame him if he did ...

I feel for Michelle Obama ... a very intelligent woman who has to watch her husband being insulted by the likes of Boehner who criticized the joint session and referred to OUR President as "some politician" ... that denigrating comment and Mitch McConnell mantra to make this President a one term President says it all ....

I would be embarrassed if I were a member of the GOTP to be associated with what the party now stands for ... and many are ....

  • 3 votes
#2.44 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:27 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

first he should be referenced as The President, MY President, YOUR President, OUR President .... something this society is forgetting ... thanks to the rude, angry, vile spewed forth from the right

Yep, He is. I didn't call him names, did I? Did I call him Obummer? BO? Hussein? People have a way of making names for those in "leadership" who do a good job and those who don't. Nope, I didn't use names, just his. Get over, it already. Sheese.

  • 13 votes
#2.45 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:35 PM EDT
Runner99

The power of the veto pen. Think about it. He's been presented different programs and agenda's by the old guard politicians that have had their idea's of what they wanted passed during economic good times and have had to hold on to them. He's a young inexperienced President. I can only imagine them licking their chops when he won the Presidency and he's been duped into passing legislation that we can hardly afford right now by the members of our oh so selfish congress. What I blame him for is for if or not being a leader that recognized what a budget meant, and that he had the ability to say no. I am the President of my house, and if we can't afford something I veto it. It's what a leader does.

  • 9 votes
#2.46 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:44 PM EDT
Elaine-1503791

vol fan @ #2.43....what an excellent comment! Wish I could vote it up a hundred times.

  • 8 votes
#2.47 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:57 PM EDT
Darkdonnie

Once again all I hear is Obama this and Obama that ......

This is a seed about "that one" is it not?????

  • 8 votes
#2.48 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:04 PM EDT
tesla013

Funny you should say that Coral the folks at NPR have been calling him Mr.Obama for most of last week.

  • 5 votes
#2.49 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:51 PM EDT
Extraterrestrial

It's ironic that a power failure on the West Coast prevented me from being able to see the speech. Maybe that was a blessing! It doesn't sound like I missed much! Just the same old broken record!

  • 6 votes
#2.50 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:53 PM EDT
Virgil Starkwell

I'd like to know the source of the money that will pay for this legislation. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Obama exceeds the debt limit he fought for. I'd like to know why he didn't present this jobs bill two years ago. I'd also like to know why the U.S. is funneling billions of dollars to security forces that are in league with the Taliban. Billions of dollars that could have been used at home to help our own people rather than finance a campaign to kill American service personnel.

He insists the bill needs to be passed now. Is it because he doesn't want anyone to know what's in it? Did he drop this bombshell in Congress' lap 30 minutes before his speech? Is Pelosi going to tell the American people again, the bill needs to be passed so we can see what's in it? This sounds like another TARP ultimatum, and ultimatums are never good.

It was no surprise to see Geithner and Clinton sitting together. One should be in jail for defrauding America, and the other has left a trail of dead bodies in her wake. What a pair!

Obama you're full of crap, and your speech is too little, too late. Your departure in 2012 will not come soon enough for me.

P.S. Very good piece you wrote Tesla.

  • 7 votes
#2.51 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
TiG.

clarke @2.42

You've got Obama in the middle who has consistently called for discourse, maturity and copmpromise and been shut down all along, by a G.O.P who's supreme goal has been to make him as ineffectual as they can.

Cliche. It starts with 'it is Bush's' and now we have 'it is the GOP's fault'. When evaluating leadership one of the things you pay attention to is excuses. Effective leaders do not run on excuses - they focus instead on doing what is required to get results.

Another point of evaluation is the rhetoric to results ratio. Obama is high on rhetoric and low on results. He started his presidency with rock star political capital and a lock on both the Executive and Legislative branches coupled with a frightened public that largely would agree to anything at the time. With all that going for him he wound up dramatically increasing the national debt, setting new records for deficit spending and spent all of his remaining political capital pushing an ill-conceived health care bill down our throats. Wrong problem; half-baked solution; wrong time. Unemployment remains at 9.1%, our fiscal situation is a disaster and in Sep of 2011 - 2 1/2 years after gaining power - Obama now claims he has the real solution for our economic woes. He gives us the nice sounding platitudes now and promises to deliver the details later and - oh - it is all paid for. {rolls eyes} Anybody can get up and make claims. With his track record the 'change we can believe in' happy talk no longer plays, the general nice-sounding promises no longer have much 'hope' associated with them. Show me something better than yet another nicely packaged, cleverly labeled initiative whose only predictable results will be an increase in taxes on present and (worse) future generations.

His rhetoric is well past tired bull@!$%# and the apologists are working overtime.

______

But maybe he actually has changed and maybe this is really going to work this time. :-)

  • 9 votes
#2.52 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:01 PM EDT
Boudicea

What I heard Mr Obama say last night is this - "Special Interest Groups, I feel your pain! I will endeavor to put MORE teachers back to work (though the unemployment rate for teachers is a paltry 3%) and I will endeavor to put more UNION trade labor back to work. Where the money will come from, I really don't know - but we'll figure that out later" And I heard him say "And the 51% of Americans who still pay SOME income taxes - well, we'll make sure that even MORE of you can be completely exempt from taxation so you can enjoy everything this country has to offer SCOTT FREE".

Lets not forget the Democratic Mantra - TAX THE RICH!!! He was told this is the right thing to do by no less than Warren Buffet (Wait, don't we HATE Wall Street and all those big corporations who don't pay taxes - like Berkshire Hathaway?) But you know, I didn't ELECT Warren Buffet to make the decisions on what this country should and should not do with the tax code.

Yes, Mr. Obama, we completely understand that we must "Pass this bill now" - you told us that 17 times. Unfortunately, we're a little bit leary of that post Nancy Pelosi and her "You have to pass the bill to see what is in it"

Now about those small businesses. Yes, it would be wonderful for Congress to make it easier for small businesses to thrive in America. What WON'T work is a short term fix like you are proposing. Business owners need to be able to see 3-5-7 years down the road and know what to expect.

So, Mr. Obama, your Campaign Rally for re-election was a total and complete waste of the American taxpayer's time. And HOW DARE YOU use a joint session of Congress and televise it to toot your own horn.

I was waiting for the pom poms and cheerleaders.

  • 14 votes
#2.53 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:15 PM EDT
owlsview

Wow!

  • 10 votes
#2.54 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:56 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

EXCELLENT POST kjmgirl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 10 votes
#2.55 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:58 PM EDT
Extraterrestrial

kjmgirl, EXELLENT!!! (standing ovation)!

  • 3 votes
#2.56 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:42 AM EDT
Reply
It Aint So

I had the choice of watching this clown, or watching paint dry.

That fence sure looked pretty after I had finished...

No one really needed to watch it at all. Just more empty rhetoric from an empty suit.

  • 14 votes
#3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:37 PM EDT
BluekilgoretroutDeleted
tesla013

Blue you can take that somewhere else

Deleted as off topic an insulting to another Viner.

  • 9 votes
#3.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:53 PM EDT
It Aint So

Its about as legitimate as those that rail against Fox News and Rush Limbaugh all the time - yet they never listen or watch.

There are enough reviews online and in the media to tell me I didnt miss anything.

  • 8 votes
#3.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 12:54 PM EDT
owlsview

It ain't so, I understand your attitude, but getting your information second hand can lead to being mis-informed. I share your opinion about the speech but would like to offer this link to the text of the Presidents speech so that any who didn't watch it can read his exact words. His words his spin nobody elses.

  • 9 votes
#3.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:49 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

What a good idea. To actually base opinions on the thing itself and not someone else's opinion.

  • 1 vote
#3.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:51 PM EDT
owlsview

It is a good thing. Why don't you try it?

  • 10 votes
#3.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:15 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

I watched it last night, thanks.

  • 1 vote
#3.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:17 PM EDT
Levon Helm

He laid out a plan with no way of paying for it, even while he repeatedly said it would cost nothing. He tasked the super-committee ( what a joke, that) with finding an "extra" 450 billion to go with the 1.2 trillion they already have to find.

His Hope and Change turned out to be Shuck and Jive, not surprisingly to anyone with an IQ in the 3 digit range.

  • 6 votes
#3.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:06 PM EDT
Steve Watts

He laid out a plan with no way of paying for it...

The pay-go proposal will come alongside the full detailed proposal on Monday. Republicans love pay-go, remember?

  • 4 votes
#3.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:08 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

Republicans love pay-go, remember?

steve, so did the Dems who owned the whole enchilada, but did they follow it?

On February 12, 2010, President Obama signed the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010 into law. The legislation increased the public debt limit to $14.2 trillion (from $12.4 trillion) and, more pertinently, instituted a new PAYGO statute.

Starting with their own rules, we found that both the House and the Senate regularly waive such requirements. Take the Temporary Extension Act of 2010, signed by President Obama on March 2, 2010. The legislation temporarily increased unemployment benefits and health care subsidies. Section 11 of the bill states that the law is designated "as an emergency for the purposes of pay-as-you-go principles." In short, that means that most of law is exempt from the PAYGO requirement. The Continuing Extension Act of 2010, which included further extensions of expiring programs and which was signed into law on April 15, 2010, included an identical exemption.

Jason Peuquet from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, a bipartisan public policy think tank, told us, however, that a "large portion of this so far has come from emergency spending ... so although lawmakers have technically abided by PAYGO, the law exempts trillion of dollars." Indeed, if you add up the many exemptions within the PAYGO law, you'd get anywhere between $2 trillion and $3 trillion in spending and tax cuts over 10 years

President Obama promised to enforce pay-as-you-go budget rules. We'll give him points for passing the Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2010, which so far has been technically adhered to. But the law is riddled with exemptions, and the Congress seems to have a habit of waiving its own PAYGO rules.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/34/enforce-pay-as-you-go-paygo-budget-rules/

  • 11 votes
#3.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:23 PM EDT
Darkdonnie

The pay-go proposal will come alongside the full detailed proposal on Monday. Republicans love pay-go, remember?

I and most conservatives of all ilks especially dislike the last sentence below from this AP article, fact checking "that one"s speech last night. hmmmm

THE FACTS: Obama did not spell out exactly how he would pay for the measures contained in his nearly $450 billion American Jobs Act but said he would send his proposed specifics in a week to the new congressional supercommittee charged with finding budget savings. White House aides suggested that new deficit spending in the near-term to try to promote job creation would be paid for in the future — the "out years," in legislative jargon — but they did not specify what would be cut or what revenues they would use.

Essentially, the jobs plan is an IOU from a president and lawmakers who may not even be in office down the road when the bills come due. Today's Congress cannot bind a later one for future spending. A future Congress could simply reverse it.

Currently, roughly all federal taxes and other revenues are consumed in spending on various federal benefit programs, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, veterans' benefits, food stamps, farm subsidies and other social-assistance programs and payments on the national debt. Pretty much everything else is done on credit with borrowed money.

So there is no guarantee that programs that clearly will increase annual deficits in the near term will be paid for in the long term. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44449392/ns/politics-white_house/t/obamas-jobs-plan-paid-seems-not/

  • 5 votes
#3.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:12 PM EDT
Steve Watts

steve, so did the Dems who owned the whole enchilada, but did they follow it?

I'm not seeing how that's particularly relevant, vol. People are criticizing the plan for not being "paid for," but Obama is proposing they pay for it with a forthcoming deficit offset plan. Besides just being bizarre for criticizing the President for spending when no one has seen the offset suggestions, that also means that they're claiming the pay-go system itself doesn't work -- which makes it just as much a liability on them as on the Democrats.

  • 2 votes
#3.12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:34 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

it's relevant because you happened to bring up the Pubs liking Paygo in an Obama seed. I refuted it... Oh please, like Obama is going to offset anything. The embedded link above disputes that too.

they're claiming the pay-go system itself doesn't work -- which makes it just as much a liability on them as on the Democrats.

Not really, the dems were going to be the party of no more "deficit spending" according to Nancy P...they blew through money like a slots player at Vegas. And as I said, they had the whole enchilada and could have passed and enforced their own limitations. They did not.

  • 10 votes
#3.13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:42 PM EDT
Steve Watts

it's relevant because you happened to bring up the Pubs liking Paygo in an Obama seed. I refuted it...

Just so I'm clear, are you claiming that Republicans don't like pay-go?

  • 4 votes
#3.14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:49 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

No, I am not...quit spinning crap.

  • 6 votes
#3.15 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:27 PM EDT
Mary J 0604

No, I am not...quit spinning crap.

Of course you're not vol. They don't have truth and logic so they spin, spin, and spin until the truth is so unrecognizable that they think Obama is great! They get dizzy from all the spinning. That's why they believe all the things they do. They are all discombobulated from all that spinning. It makes it easier to brainwash them. ;) lol

  • 4 votes
#3.16 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:04 PM EDT
Reply
Josh Ames

No matter what the president does, those on the right will not be happy. They've been all about tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and when the president proposes to do just that, they are still not satisfied. They are just filled with pure, blind hatred.

  • 8 votes
#4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:07 PM EDT
Dog_Blue

Simplistic thinking from the left is why Obama is a failure. "pure, blind hatred". Give it a break and try thinking for a change. Stop hiding behind the leftist talking points.

  • 9 votes
#4.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Josh:

I would call it stupidity.

Dangerous Stupidity, and hopefully it will come around and bite them squarely on the A$$.

Dog Blue:

Willful ignorance on the Right is the very reason this country is in such bad shape.

Never forget that when you are calling others simplistic.

We all know how deep you Teabaggers and Republicans can be. Don't we?

***This post is on topic and is only insulting to a group (i.e. stupid Republicans) not a viner***

  • 6 votes
#4.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:17 PM EDT
tesla013

I for one do not hate anyone. And I strongly resent the accusation Josh. The man(Obama) is supposed to be leading this country and he himself said last night that we are currently in race downward to the bottom. Well Obama is the captain of the goddamned ship ain't he?

  • 7 votes
#4.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:19 PM EDT
tesla013

I am aware of the rules Blue. Thank you.

Your assumptions about the political leanings of those commenting however are unfounded and based solely on an apparent personal prejudice. You might want to ask before slinging mud. This country REMAINS in bad shape due to 3 years of placing blame on the previous President and doing nothing to move us out of the mess.

  • 6 votes
#4.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
sjayne2355

They've been all about tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and when the president proposes to do just that, they are still not satisfied

He is talking about cutting the wrong taxes...he should be talking about eliminating corporate taxes and giving an across the board 5% reduction in all income taxes for the next year. He should also be eliminating capital gains taxes. He should also be talking about amnesty for repatriated funds.

He can't because those tax ideas go against his core voter...

  • 3 votes
#4.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:23 PM EDT
greck

he himself said last night that we are currently in race downward to the bottom.

he said that's where the cult of deregulation would take us if it had its way.

  • 5 votes
#4.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:23 PM EDT
Jumpmaster82

Please check the power of the position, check the role of the congress and tell me what a President is supposed to do when according to democracy, they out vote him.

  • 2 votes
#4.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:29 PM EDT
tesla013

Funny I trust your recollection better than my own in this instance greck. But regardless Obama is the captain of the ship right now and the ship is floundering to put it mildly, stepping up and taking some responsibility for that would at least garner the man some respect from me.

  • 8 votes
#4.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:31 PM EDT
tesla013

JumpMaster82,

I alluded to the roll of congress in the piece. But if the President wants recognition for the positive he must be willing to step up and take same for the negative. You can't be the powerless president when things are going poorly and then suddenly become the orchestrator of the miracle the Leader of the Free World, when they turn around.

  • 6 votes
#4.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:34 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Tesla:

So, that's your argument...He's the captain of the ship???

That is so funny in its simplicity that I am almost crying with laughter.

"This country REMAINS in bad shape due to 3 years of placing blame on the previous President"

This assertion is patently false.

We are in this bad shape due to the fact that Bush and his cronies looted the coffers and the current batch of Republicans place their own political gain above the good of the citizenry and therefore refuse to do anything which might turn things around.

In my mind they are traitors and cowards, every one.

They hide behind lies and the only ones who suffer are those who depend upon them to take the reigns and lead.

  • 7 votes
#4.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:40 PM EDT
sjayne2355

Republicans place their own political gain above the good of the citizenry and therefore refuse to do anything which might turn things around.

When will people understand that a lot of what the Republicans have said "no" to are exactly the things we elected them to say no to in the first place.

When something is finally initiated that will "turn things around", then I am sure they will vote for it. I don't need my representatives blindly following a failed leader just to say they can't be blamed.

  • 7 votes
#4.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:48 PM EDT
tesla013

Ok blue what is the Presidents responsibility and mind you I am aware of all the things Obama supporters hold the last president accountable for. Because you just intimated that Obama is nothing but a figure head mouth piece for his party and we could get just as good from anyone else.

  • 6 votes
#4.12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:50 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

No I didn't, you just regurgitated what I said with a fair measure of your own inaccurate spin.

Obama is a centrist, whether you folks choose to believe that or not. He has eroded a large portion of his bases support in an attempt to compromise with Republicans for the greater good.

Where has this gotten him?

He is called a coward. Weak. A caver. All these things.

History is going to be very cruel to this congress. A congress who refuses to budge when options have been handed to them on a silver platter, but still they have chosen to sacrifice the future of their constituency for their own political gain.

I can't really blame them, though.

Their constituency has turned into a pack of rabid dogs, who are only capable of responding out of fear and making demands that can never be realized. Hence the total legislative paralysis we see today.

It is truly sad, where we have gotten to as a country.

  • 4 votes
#4.13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 1:57 PM EDT
owlsview

Bluekil, your command of the humor of hypocrisy is amazing.

"This country REMAINS in bad shape due to 3 years of placing blame on the previous President"

This assertion is patently false.

Then you follow up with this;

We are in this bad shape due to the fact that Bush and his cronies looted the coffers and the current batch of Republicans place their own political gain above the good of the citizenry and therefore refuse to do anything which might turn things around.

You sound like the President's speech writer.


  • 11 votes
#4.14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:00 PM EDT
tesla013

And further blue you also say that republicans are the reason the country is in such bad shape then go on to explain how our president must try to compromise with those who are destroying our country. I would think the president should stop such destruction myself. Which is it blue?

  • 7 votes
#4.15 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:07 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Tesla:

Do you have any idea how our government functions?

There is a great Schoolhouse Rock video you should watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dVo3nbLYC0

  • 4 votes
#4.16 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:12 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

Spot on Bluekilgoretrout ...... we have some very frustrated, angry and scared right wingers here ... and they have a right to be frightened ..... lack of skills and education is just one reason .....

All the GOTP has in store for most americans is less of everything including health care, pay rates and freedom

...and if the GOTP gets their way ... most here will be among those who are hurt the most ......

the only solution to everyone's problems is what the President has proposed ..... rebuilding our nation, education, research and selling goods made in america to the world

many who think otherwise are lost souls ..... waiting for something that the GOTP will never give them .... white supremacy ....

  • 6 votes
#4.17 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

On second thought, I think the GOP is right.

I think we should just surrender to our corporate overlords, because they have always had our best interests at heart.

I know they already have more than they can ever do anything with, but they need more.

I know they pay very little in taxes but they should pay less, even though they get the most for the taxes they pay.

I'm glad I have seen the light.

I now support Boehner's Wealthcare. It's the only way to think.

  • 4 votes
#4.18 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
tesla013

Only time Coral there is topic; last nights speech. My first step will be to go to the mods am I clear?

That is cute blue school house rock no less. And you speak of insults and lack of substance. Indeed. Read some of my comments I despise repeating myself for the willfully unattentive.

  • 6 votes
#4.19 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:22 PM EDT
greg-709692

we have some very frustrated, angry and scared right wingers here ... and they have a right to be frightened ..... lack of skills and education is just one reason .....

us dum folks jist caint git the jist of wht youall ar talkin bout.

What a redicules comment Coral Atlas!!!!

You should stop yelling Coral. We hear your Debby Schultz rant quite well.

  • 11 votes
#4.20 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:27 PM EDT
It Aint So

Why do you hate white people so much, Coral?

  • 10 votes
#4.21 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:29 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Greg:

did you intentionally misspell ridiculous?

It ain't so:

Who the hell said anything about hating white people??

Is this where the thread devolves into racist B$????

I love that part of the show!

  • 3 votes
#4.22 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:31 PM EDT
tesla013

So blue, gonna answer my very simple question? 4.12

  • 6 votes
#4.23 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:33 PM EDT
It Aint So

many who think otherwise are lost souls ..... waiting for something that the GOTP will never give them .... white supremacy ....

Perhaps you dont read so well, Bluekil....

  • 4 votes
#4.24 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:39 PM EDT
greg-709692

Heckz no Bluekilgoretrout. I'z spellz em as I'z herez'em. ;)

Spell Checkers are fun. Distraction, Distraction, Distraction...

  • 7 votes
#4.25 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:45 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

I am illiterate. It's unfortunate.

You guys are really a welcoming bunch.

Tesla:

Obama's responsibility is to further the agenda of his party as dictated by the mandate of his election, in so far as he is capable, given the limits of his power within the context of how our government functions.

  • 3 votes
#4.26 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:47 PM EDT
greg-709692

I welcome you Blue !!! :)

  • 7 votes
#4.27 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:05 PM EDT
Bluekilgoretrout

Thanks Greg, I do appreciate that.

The simple fact that we have differing beliefs and perceptions of reality, shouldn't mean that we can't be civil.

  • 2 votes
#4.28 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:59 PM EDT
Dog_Blue

BKG;

I know who EXACTLY who has a simplistis perspective. The group of people who refuse to acknowledge that their brand of politics and economics magically works. Especially trying to model the U.S, economy on a failed European system. Please state any evidence to the contrary. Because some group of recently graduated college fools think they have a line of all the knowledge of the ages does not make it fact.

  • 3 votes
#4.29 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:14 AM EDT
Virgil Starkwell

Josh Ames # 4 -

They are just filled with pure, blind hatred.

That comment rightly fits what Liberals think of anyone not them.

  • 5 votes
#4.30 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:23 PM EDT
Reply
MikeBravo

The President is Coming and He's Pissed!!

I hope so on all counts. It is time for him to get hard nosed and hard assed. It is time for him to take it to the people and go no-holds-barred for what he says he wants. If he does not, he might as well turn the government over to the GOteaP.

  • 2 votes
#5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:02 PM EDT
owlsview

Mike, he has no problem with the hard nosed words. It is way past time for him to put up a good fight. I find the title of this article to be sarcastic, even if it wasn't meant to be that way.Any man who has what it takes to stand up to people would have done so by now. Obama just doesn't have it.

  • 8 votes
#5.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:08 PM EDT
tesla013

I agree Mike. I am taking a wait and see approach. Up till now however.....

  • 7 votes
#5.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:08 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

MikeBravo ..... this President fights on his terms when it is time to fight ..... he has allowed the GOTP to continue to self destruct until they are at the point they are now ..... they have nothing left .... you can only say no so many times ....

Meanwhile this President still has a lot of power including the ability to expose the GOTP for what it is .. an intellectually bankrupt hate machine that is bent on defeating him and the hell with America and Americans ...

they are toast!

  • 4 votes
#5.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:20 PM EDT
It Aint So

Meanwhile this President still has a lot of power including the ability to expose the GOTP for what it is .. an intellectually bankrupt hate machine that is bent on defeating him and the hell with America and Americans ...

Oh, so THAT'S the reason his poll numbers keep dropping each month. Its because he still has a lot of power, and he has the ability to expose the GOP.

The only one being "exposed" is Obama...for the fraud and clown that he is.

  • 6 votes
#5.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:31 PM EDT
owlsview

Your rhetoric is like a fine wine Coral unfortunately it has been left sitting out to long and has soured instead of aged.

If the President has all of this power, why hasn't he used it the last three years?
We can sit here and go tit for tat naming nefarious actions by members of Congress and the evils done by both parties. We can fill an encyclopedia and come out even at the end. It would be a tremendous waste of time just as is your harping about anything that isn't done or supported by Democrats is extreme right-wing evil.

  • 10 votes
#5.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:38 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

I don't live my life according to polls but last I checked OUR President was being dragged down by the rest of Washington who are approaching ground zero!

He needs to get rid of the baggage that is slowing him down.

  • 2 votes
#5.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:41 PM EDT
tesla013

Oh I see now the in this comment the president does have power. Better check with your compatriots Coral according to them Obama has little or no power.

And become KING Coral?? Supreme Emperor perhaps??? And you talk about the GOP being Nazis and white supremacists.

  • 9 votes
#5.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:45 PM EDT
vol fan in chatt, tn

LOL, Coral is an admitted Marxist sticking up for another one. Pure and simple.

  • 11 votes
#5.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:28 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

vol fan in chatt, tn ... read Marx before you assume there is something wrong with his theories .... it might shock you to find out the truth which is that China and Russia and America have the same types of Government ... plutocratic oligarchies ...

in America when we don't vote in our representative democracy ...we are not represented ... only the wealthiest most powerful Americans get to say what OUR Government does .... lobbyists and campaign contributors run our nation - a plutocracy ... look it up ...

There is a reason why China gets along so well with capitalism without democracy and also strictly bans socialism!

You have a lot of reading to do before you can assume anything about Marx who predicted capitalism would fail when resources start to run out ..... Nature is being destroyed ... and as a result humanity will perish. That is capitalism ... wasteful consumption and lots of profits for a few ...

  • 2 votes
#5.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:40 PM EDT
TiG.

Coral

... it might shock you to find out the truth which is that China and Russia and America have the same types of Government ...

So why then are you such a groupie for Obama? As a Marx aficionado you should be entirely at odds with Obama given his 'stated' focus on improving the health of our capitalistic economy and his apparent statist tendenciesto make the largest monopoly we know - the federal government - even stronger. Or do you infer from Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto an undertone suggesting that a large powerful state (minority control over majority) with increasingly diluted effective democracy is a good thing?

Your comments on Marx suggest you understand his philosophy (as it were) so this infatuation with YOUR president seems contradictory. That is, unless you see Obama taking steps to help Marx' theories come true.

Gonna answer me this time? Why is Obama a good POTUS for an aficionado of Marx?

  • 8 votes
#5.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:41 PM EDT
owlsview

TiG, don't hold your breathe.

  • 9 votes
#5.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:12 PM EDT
TiG.

owl

Exactly - the best I will get back is that I should first do some reading. :-) I suspect Coral knows from my past comments to him that he will need more than a basic understanding of Marx and the history of socialism to play his 'you are too ignorant to understand' game with me.

But owl, my ending question to Coral is 100% sincere. For an anti-capitalist - especially one who apparently is enamored by orthodox Marxism (or maybe just Marx himself) - to be drooling over Obama on every other post the anti-capitalist in question must believe that Obama is ultimately pursuing anti-capitalist goals. I just wonder what goals Coral sees Obama pursuing and how he sees Obama accomplishing them. That is, why is Obama a good POTUS for an aficionado of Marx?

Not holding my breath.

  • 9 votes
#5.12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:33 PM EDT
dignitatem societatis

There is a reason why China gets along so well with capitalism

Marxist analysis isn't taboo for their economic policy makers. They know exactly what results from free trade between unevenly developed economies. Our policy makers have been giving the farm away for years now. China knows this, being well schooled in the workings of capitalist production (thanks to Marx), and are taking full advantage of our stupidity.

[...] Marx who predicted capitalism would fail when resources start to run out ..... Nature is being destroyed ... and as a result humanity will perish.

To be fair, that is true of any economic system, not just capitalism--physics is physics. Marx critiqued capitalism on moral ground, not floral ground (heh). His focus was the exploitation of human beings, not nature. His conclusions about capitalism self-destructing weren't based on resources starting to run out (again, a problem for any model) but that through coercive competition, possession of (and power over) those resources would inevitably fall into fewer and fewer hands with time, eventually leading to such levels of class disparity and inequality that social upheaval, even revolution, would result. In other words, if the competition goes on long enough, some few will eventually 'win', and as soon as everyone else realizes that the game is over, it'll be pitchforks and torches time.

  • 4 votes
#5.13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:44 PM EDT
TiG.

dignitatum

Good to see you. You are likely not going to get a response from Coral either. :-) But I think we have gone off topic so out of respect for Tesla I am not going to comment on the content of your post (well, at least not here).

  • 7 votes
#5.14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:55 PM EDT
dignitatem societatis

True, true, off topic. It's just that from a few other posts I've come across, I've gotten the impression that Coral thinks Marx founded Greenpeace, drove a flower-power VW van, passed out flowers to strangers in airports, and got arrested for chaining himself to trees or laying down in front of bulldozers or something.

I know, I know...off topic...sorry Tesla...nvm. ;-p

  • 6 votes
#5.15 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:46 PM EDT
TiG.

dignitatem

... Coral thinks Marx founded Greenpeace ...

LOL (tears in eyes)

  • 8 votes
#5.16 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:54 PM EDT
Extraterrestrial

T'is better to be pissed off than pissed on! (unless your into that sort of thing)

  • 9 votes
#5.17 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:03 AM EDT
owlsview

If Tesla says something, just tell him a little birdie told you it was ok. He will understand when I tell him we seem to be suffering from a computer virus that creates short term memory loss that inhibits our ability to remember what the topic is. He can be gullible when he wants to be.

  • 7 votes
#5.18 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:50 AM EDT
Extraterrestrial

I'd did use the word "pissed"! After all it is in the title. and it refers to Obamas attitude! :-]

  • 7 votes
#5.19 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:02 AM EDT
Reply
owlsview

Obama is not a centrist, just because you lefties don't want him anymore doesn't mean you can dump him on us. He fooled us with that routine the last time around. His currnt posing is nothing but a waste of time. His, not ours.

  • 9 votes
Reply#6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:03 PM EDT
Coral AtlasDeleted
tesla013

I do not believe anyone here who deem to be on the right Coral has expressed in anyway a dislike for the president. We have expressed an extreme dislike of his lack of leadership and his lack of back bone in standing up for Americans in the ways he deems suitable. He has become a GOP lap dog and we are commenting on that fact being a deciding factor in our lack of faith in his words last night.

  • 8 votes
#6.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:31 PM EDT
tyler-1708225

Wow, Coral has spoken. He now decides who should and should not be here.

  • 5 votes
#6.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:34 PM EDT
tesla013

6.1 deleted disrespect and insult to individual Viner.

  • 6 votes
#6.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:48 PM EDT
Truth Sleuth

I like the President very much. I voted for him. I agree with him on a lot of issues, mainly social ones. I don't agree with him on fiscal policy and especially his Keynesian economic views. And I will call him out on it. I'm his boss. Criticizing him is in no way a vitriolic hatefest or an expression of racism. I simply don't agree with him or trust him on fiscal matters. I think he's extremely intelligent, well educated and a powerful orator. I am extremely disappointed, however, in his leadership abilities and the downward trajectory this country has taken under his watch.

  • 6 votes
#6.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:55 PM EDT
owlsview

Truth, that was the truth. Well put.

  • 6 votes
#6.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:05 PM EDT
owlsview

Tesla I feel I should make a slight correction in your 6.2. I do dislike Obama, not only as a President but as a person also. I started out liking him. A good family man, intelligent, charming and dedicated. I lost my respect and any idea of him being a good person when he started having closed sessions with the Democrats leaving the Republicans sitting out in the cold after all of his talk about reaching across the aisle.

Then he tries to ram Obamacare down our throats and lies about it. The fact that he admitted to lying doesn't make him a better person. He was caught red-handed.

I hold the office of the President in high regard. When the President lies to the American people he is showing total dis-respect to the position he holds.

So no, I do not like Obama as a person and I feel no need to hide the fact. I don't believe that there has been a President in my lifetime that I would like as a person or want as a personal friend. It isn't a question of ideology or a difference of opinion. It is integrity that separates good people from bad people to me.

  • 8 votes
#6.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:38 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

yawn

  • 1 vote
#6.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:13 PM EDT
Student of Life

Owlsview,

I hate liars. People who ignore facts because they're politically inconvenient.

440 republican amendments were voted on during the 'Obamacare' Act.

176 of them were passed and put into the bill.

54 of them by the same idiot who said 'No one ever read it'

So why are you voting for congressmen who refuse to read things that they somehow manage to offer amendments to ?

  • 2 votes
#6.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:10 PM EDT
owlsview

Learn this Student of Life. There are a few things besides lies that tick me off. One of them being people who make assumptions about me and what I may or may not do. Before you attack someone, you really should know something about them.

Am I a Democrat? A Republican? Ever think of Libertarian?

Do I vote the same party line consistently?

Have I ever said anything good about Obama?

I've been on the Vine for a year as of last month on my site alone their are enough articles posted and moderated by me for you to do some homework with.

If you had done your homework you would never have confronted me with those silly little numbers and you most certainly would never have asked me of all Viners your ridiculous question.

So why are you voting for congressmen who refuse to read things that they somehow manage to offer amendments to ?

  • 10 votes
#6.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:28 PM EDT
Student of Life

Then he tries to ram Obamacare down our throats and lies about it. The fact that he admitted to lying doesn't make him a better person. He was caught red-handed.

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2220911/2221030/2222297/GOPHELPAmendments.xls

That is a lie. You know it, I know it, and anyone who paid ANY attention to the actual debate knows it. The fact that me calling you out on it offends you is not my problem. The bill went through 4 committees, took 14 months, there were 5 different versions online, and somehow Republicans managed to fit 788 amendments into it. The only reason it was 'rammed down your throat' was because you refused to do your research. Not my fault, nor my problem.

Your political leanings are worthless to me. I have no problem calling out a liar on any side. But playing the victim card by setting up a straw man argument (I never claimed you were anything, OTHER than a liar) so you can knock it down - poor technique.

Look, I'm sorry that not every campaign policy and bill can fit on a bumper sticker. But that's reality. Sometimes , you have to read a little to understand it.

  • 1 vote
#6.11 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:48 PM EDT
SuperSaiyan

Sometimes , you have to read a little to understand it.

Yeah, that is true but some people apparently has not learned this, with Bachmann being a good example...

  • 1 vote
#6.12 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:54 PM EDT
tesla013

Easy Student, its politics, it's the Vine, Not the Nobel or the Pulizter ok hoss? Many folks feel this bill was rushed through, or rammed down the gullet in other words. And given the overall feeling of distrust for anythng Washington that "rush" tends to get folks thinking that the fed is trying to pull a fast one. Considering that Washington has been trying to eliminate poverty for 50 years and more the amount of time it took this to pass was pretty damned quick.

  • 5 votes
#6.13 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:57 PM EDT
Reply
MrIndia

I think we are in trouble. Big trouble. Let me explain why.

You see the President of the united states can only give speeches. He can do precious little unilaterally. He needs congress to approve his every decision. Heck - he can't even appoint people to his own cabinet without congress's approval.

Now in the past the majority and the minority in congress, while always at each other's throat, understood that to run the country they needed to work together and they did - for most part. Important things always got done and the great game of democracy continued in all its chaotic glory.

But in 2009 a strange thing happened. A black man got elected to the white house. This sent the right into a temper tantrum hitherto unseen by any other democracy in the world. Republicans in the congress dug in their heel and refused to cooperate with him. They blocked him at every possible step of the way with every trick in the book making a record in filibustering in the process.

This situation is not likely to change and they are going to drive the country to the ground in thier bid to oust the president - as they almost did during the debt crisis. Boner wanted cuts. He got more cuts than he asked for and yet he refused to play because that would have handed Obama something that might have seemed like bit of a victory in the public eye whereas his and the GOP agenda was to make sure that Obama fails at everything and anything.

Now the rub is that even when the president is not able to do anything about the economy, the financial reforms, appointing a consumer watch dog or any of the ten thousand things he thought up because the congress will simply not let him do any of it, the public still believes,rightly or wrongly, that it is the president's fault because he is the face of the government.

So i guess the chances of Obama winning a second term is very low. Republicans should be rejoicing. However, they will find out that even of they win the 2012 election, their joy will be short lived. Why ? Because dear fellas ...the other side is not stupid. They are watching the game and are learning from it.

2012 onwards, get ready for democrats to give you a taste of your own medicine. They have figured it out. In case a republican wins 2012 presidential bid, all they have to do is emulate the exact same things republicans did between 2009-2012 and they will be able to get the incumbent thrown out in 2016....

All good ,except America and we poor Americans are going to get our butt buggered in this great game of democracy.

Good luck to you all !!!

  • 5 votes
Reply#7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:21 PM EDT
tesla013

Same tired race based argument for a lack of leadership from either the president or his party.

  • 5 votes
#7.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:26 PM EDT
sjayne2355

If there is a God, and I believe there is, then he will also grant the American people a majority in the Senate to go along with a Republican House and President.

Then we can get this country rolling again...

  • 6 votes
#7.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:28 PM EDT
Coral Atlas

MrIndia ... trust me, have faith ..... most Americans like this President and when they get over being angry and frustrated ... that anger and frustration will be directed at those responsible .... the GOTP.

And those who are against this President here will benefit as well ....

  • 5 votes
#7.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:29 PM EDT
It Aint So

most Americans like this President

I like my dog...no, let me correct that...I love my dog.

But my dog is not fit to be president.

I dont know of anyone who doesnt think that obama is a good family man. But after that, its ALL downhill, baby.

  • 7 votes
#7.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:34 PM EDT
G. H.

sjayne@7.2....................G_D doesn't involve himself in our politics, giving us free will for that and many other reasons.

    #7.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:56 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    sjayne,

    How well did that work from 2000-2008?

    Actually, @!$%# that. How well did that Republican majority work for the middle class since, oh i don't know - 1978?

    The same worn out tired ideas, that even your own economists have said were complete and utter bull@!$%#. Tax cuts to the wealthy DO NOT create jobs. Never has, never will. What it does create is bigger bank balances for them.

    The only ponzi scheme was Reaganomics.

    From 2000, to 2010 - we increased the deficit by roughly 6 trillion dollars in the form of tax cuts, and created as a result 2.9 million net jobs for the decade.

    That's a cost of 2.1 million per job created to the taxpayer.

    Get back to us when you have an original idea.

    • 2 votes
    #7.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:15 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Student,

    Things were going rather well from 2000 until 2006 when the Democrats came in and gummed up the works.

    So, let me know when you have an idea worth considering....

    • 5 votes
    #7.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:35 PM EDT
    Randy McMurphy

    sjayne2355
    Student,

    Things were going rather well from 2000 until 2006 when the Democrats came in and gummed up the works.

    Thats because in 2000 Clinton was President and we still had his successful Tax strcture that every single republican voted against , going from the 340 billion $ deficit he inherited from HW Bush to producing surpluses.

    2001 rolled around and Bush got the deficits rolling again. Then there was the mortgage crash, every one of those bad mortgages sold between 2002-2006 under the jaundiced eyes of the republican majority.

    Now since you blame the democratic congress of 2007 for the depression that started in Dec, please point out the fast actin, economy destroyin legislation passed byy the democratic majority, got around the unprecedented 122 filibusters and escaped the Bushs' veto pen that crashed the economy? Just point out the specifc bills . Thank You.

    • 3 votes
    #7.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:42 PM EDT
    Student of Life

    sjayne,

    Okay, let's play....

    Health care.

    The most effective option would be to open up FEHCP to all US citizens, just like candidate Obama offered during the debate. "I think all Americans should enjoy the same health program that myself and Senator McCain do."

    Citizens can enter into it on their will , pay into it out of their own pockets, which will reduce the cost because of the increased number of applicants to spread the risk on.

    Gun Control.

    Every firearm purchased should be run through AFIS in the factory, and gun owners should do yearly refresher training It may be a right, but it's also a responsibility. Tax cuts to offset the cost of the training and licensing fees.

    Taxes

    Tie jobs directly to taxes. The more jobs you create, the lower your personal tax liability is.

    3 year tax holiday to any manufacturing company that headquarters itself in the US and opens 3 or more factories in the continental US.

    Keep the progressive table lower the rates, but remove the ability to itemize deductions. Remove the ability for tax credits to actually increase your tax refund, they should only reduce your tax liability.

    Defense

    Remove the requirement to purchase GSA products instead of commercial products, instead purchase the cheapest product that meets the specifications.

    Stop paying flat rates for housing, instead pay out what the servicemember pays in rent and utilities upto the maximum allotted amount.

    Stop penalizing units for having excess money at the end of the FY by reducing their budget that much the following year.

    Stop spending billions of dollars to keep equipment functioning that's 20 years past its service life.

    Foreign Affairs

    Any business that leaves the US, headquarters offshore, or outsources their workers must immediately pay back the last 3 years of tax credits they've received. Any business that leaves the US is not allowed to do business in the US for a period of 3 years. If they don't invest in this economy, they won't take money OUT of this economy.

    Illegal Immigration

    Any business caught having an illegal immigrant on the payroll or working for them will lose their operating/business license for a period of 6 months for the first offense, and a lifetime ban for the second offense. They will also be fined 10 times what the yearly pay of hiring a legal worker would be.

    Education.

    Standardized tests are a failure. A much better test of aptitude is a test that evaluates how long it takes students to learn a similar yet different skill than the one that they've been taught. A good example of this is the DLAB, which tests someones ability to learn a language by giving them a completely randomly generated language and then testing them on their application of it.

    Foreign Economic Policy

    All imported items will be tarriffed to an equal amount of what it would cost to manufacture that item (or a similar one if it doesn't exist) in the United States.

    Middle East

    Phased withdrawl of troops and equipment to Kuwait, maintaining a presence in the region for a period of 1 year , which is the amount of time it will take to get the necessary air/sea assets to move the equipment back to the US.

    Assume a defensive posture, but one of alertness.

    However, make it CRYSTAL clear that if you harm or attempt to harm Americans, there is NOT ONE country we will not enter to bring you to justice. We will deal with the diplomatic fallout later, well after you are dead.

    Energy.

    There must be a concrete timeline on transitioning from fossil fuels to alternative sources of energy. Offer 5 year tax holidays for companies who work on developing alternative energy programs, including next generation nuclear reactors. Patent and export alternative energy sources to the rest of the world. All oil wells must have 2 relief wells drilled before they may begin withdrawing oil as well as a blowout preventer that requires a constant control signal to stay open , rather than a control signal to close.

    National Security

    The primary failure during 9/11 was an inability to communicate between various agencies due to different protocols. This must be corrected. This doesn't require a new department, merely an enforcement of the already created communication systems. A dedicated network for all emergency networks (on their own dedicated satellite) would be greatly beneficial in the event of another attack.

    I would chop up DHS and the TSA and roll them into the DOT, there's just a LOT of redundancy there. It's unnecessary. Use coast guard personnel to provide security at the airports.

    I think that's a good start...your turn...

    • 2 votes
    #7.9 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:50 PM EDT
    Reply
    Vlad's dog

    Great piece today tesla. I enojoyed your words and observations.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:24 PM EDT
    tesla013

    Thanks Vlad I am catching hell for it as you can see. I truly admired the speech I just wish there was some recent history to give me hope of any of it coming true.

    • 6 votes
    #8.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:28 PM EDT
    Vlad's dog

    Well heck tesla, if we don't upset at least some folks, then we ain't doin' our job very well. LOL

    • 5 votes
    #8.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:19 PM EDT
    tesla013

    Amen to that one brother.

    • 5 votes
    #8.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:38 PM EDT
    Reply
    tyler-1708225

    "You see the President of the united states can only give speeches"

    So, all the cost connected to the office of the presidency is to fund speeches? I say we abolish it, we can hire speech righters cheaper. No Air Force One, no security, no personal assistance for him, no first lady costs, no benefits, no housing, etc. etc.. Wow, look at the savings.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:29 PM EDT
    MrIndia

    He can do a lot if the congress would only let him ...

    Surely you can't be blind to the fact that his hands are effectively tied. He cannot move an inch without congress's say so.

    • 5 votes
    #9.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:38 PM EDT
    Coral Atlas

    Once again MrIndia you have risen above the noise and the hate to speak the simple truth .... thankyou ... my friend request is on the way ... ! You are a gentleman ... like our President.

    • 3 votes
    #9.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:44 PM EDT
    It Aint So

    He cannot move an inch without congress's say so.

    Interesting point...at the risk of jumping off topic, then I would expect you to blame the Dem-led Congress in 2007 and 2008 for the downfall in our financial strength.

    After all, Bush's hands were tied then as well.

    Whats fair is fair...

    • 7 votes
    #9.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:06 PM EDT
    owlsview

    Oh tell me it ain't so.

    • 5 votes
    #9.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:01 PM EDT
    TiG.

    MrIndia

    Surely you can't be blind to the fact that his hands are effectively tied. He cannot move an inch without congress's say so.

    The separation of powers (w/ checks & balances) has been in place since the Constitution was ratified. Are you suggesting that Congress has (unconstitutionally) grown more powerful than the co-equal Executive branch under Obama? That is, are you saying that Obama has less power than his predecessors??

    Please clarify.

    • 5 votes
    #9.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:48 PM EDT
    owlsview

    Hey you TiG, I thought only Obama supporters were allowed to be Constitutionally educated?

    All this talk about checks and balances and co-equal power. What about co-equal power between the government and the citizens ? Our only form of check and balance is the vote.

    All of this partisan talk is so much bs. My neighbors out here on the political island of centrism used to be few and far between. Now we have filled a continent. The left and the right both have driven so many into independent registration that neither part is noticeably any bigger than the independents when it comes to voters.

    Sorry Tesla, I really went off topic there. Hearing arguments about the differences in power between different branches of government just struck me oddly. I'll try not to let it happen again.

    • 8 votes
    #9.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:59 PM EDT
    TiG.

    owl

    What about co-equal power between the government and the citizens ? Our only form of check and balance is the vote.

    And also the distribution of power we call federalism. (Stopping short now and walking right back to the topic.) :-)

    I guess my question is going to go unanswered. It seems to me that the powers of the office of POTUS have not changed in recent history. So either all recent POTUS' hands were tied (e.g. Bush and Clinton) or someone is simply adding to the growing mountain of excuses for Obama.

    • 6 votes
    #9.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:17 PM EDT
    owlsview

    The decline in the power of the office of President of the United States is in the world beyond our borders. As respect and trust for our nation declines so does the influence of the office of President.

    • 7 votes
    #9.8 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:04 AM EDT
    Reply
    Steve Watts

    Alright guys. It's time to put aside the navel-gazing about vague notions like "taking responsibility." This article criticizes the President's jobs proposal, so let's actually talk about the jobs proposal.

    The proposal includes a small business tax credit for new hires, a special tax credit for those that hire long-term unemployed, renovations to roughly 35K public schools, infrastructure projects on rail lines, easing the red tape on federal contracts and the patent process, and paying for these proposals using the pay-go system touted by the GOP.

    Obviously we only know these ideas in broad strokes, since we're relying on a verbal outline instead of a completed bill proposal. But based on the ideas presented, what precisely are you opposed to? What precisely do you think he should have talked more about? Be specific.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:43 PM EDT
    Coral Atlas

    Steve ... good comment ... I thought he pretty much hit it out of the park as far as substance was concerned ..... nobody on the left is jumping up and down with joy .....

    I haven't read anything here that would change my mind about the American Jobs Act .... if anything it isn't enough .. and my fear is that the GOTP will attempt to tear it apart ... because their goal is not to help Americans find jobs ....

    we all know at this point what their only goal is ....

    • 4 votes
    #10.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:49 PM EDT
    tesla013

    No I offered no criticism of his plan. I only offered my lack of hope in it coming true. Lets try not to invent an argument shall we Steve?

    • 5 votes
    #10.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:51 PM EDT
    Steve Watts

    To be sure I understand you clearly, you favor all of the proposals, but you don't think it will make it through Congress? That's an interesting tack, at least. So, why don't you think it will make it through?

    I'm trying to steer the conversation towards substance. With all the bickering and hysteria that erupted in the wake of this speech, it would be nice to have a little somewhere.

    (By the way, if any opponents of the bill want to chime in on the initial question, I'd be happy to hear that too. Substance, people.)

    • 2 votes
    #10.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:56 PM EDT
    tesla013

    Has anything besides that abomination of health coverage made it through Steve? His track record with the new congress is abysmal at best. If it does pass my bet is it will be nothing but watered down useless spending unless the President gets down and dirty and fights for what he believes we need as a nation.

    And yes they all sounded like good ideas to me.

    • 5 votes
    #10.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:01 PM EDT
    Steve Watts

    Has anything besides that abomination of health coverage made it through Steve?

    Yes.

    His track record with the new congress is abysmal at best. If it does pass my bet is it will be nothing but watered down useless spending unless the President gets down and dirty and fights for what he believes we need as a nation.

    Personally, I think he is doing that. He's just not doing it the way DC tends to operate, and as a result he's getting bucked on it pretty constantly. He's too centrist, and has the gall to suggest ideas he actually believes in. That's not how DC works.

    In DC, you make wild proposals as an opening bid. If you're a liberal, you make far-left suggestions knowing you'll have room to compromise. Obama seems to think everyone is as decent and reasonable as he is, so he'll come to the table with what he actually wants as a starting position. Imagine that! Then the GOP fights him with their far-right proposals and hard-line negotiations, and so the middle-ground gets skewed right-ward.

    I suppose he could go back on his campaign promises and play the same kind of petty political games that DC always does, but I admire him for trying to make it a less cynical place -- even if it's had the tendency to bite him in the ass.

    • 4 votes
    #10.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:06 PM EDT
    Coral Atlas

    Thanks Steve ..... for adding something of value to the dialogue ... at times I wish I could restrain myself from expressing my emotions rather than just speaking about more of the underlying facts .... as you aptly have done ...

    • 2 votes
    #10.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:43 PM EDT
    owlsview

    Yawn.

    • 8 votes
    #10.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:59 PM EDT
    G. H.

    I have great respect for our President, one of the reasons is his decorum, manners, and TRYING to compromise. Unfortunately, our most recent r/tps are barbarians with no understanding of respect. If we aren't *BEATING UP SOMETHING OR SOMEONE*, we are worthless and leading from behind. Thus all the bullying from congress. They only see one way to live, and that is Attack, attack, attack. Otherwise, they see themselves as "less than" and that is anathema! Their only goal is POWER, it matters not in the least who they have to step on and try to destroy. Sad, isn't it?

    • 3 votes
    #10.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:09 PM EDT
    magnoliaave

    Speaking of honesty.......I do not like Obama...not his politics nor himself! I put tape over my mouth while listening to him last evening. Oh, he knows how to deliver a speech, alright. I say, let the games begin.....Master Obama is out campaigning and the rest are coming out of their gates.

    • 3 votes
    #10.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
    owlsview

    "Good evening ladies and gentlemen welcome to the 2012 Run for the Power.This is Owl Now with the why and how coming to you live from Pollbooth U.S.A. Joining me in the booth tonight is our good friend Jimmy Jim. What do you think Jimmy, is this going to be one of the better races we have seen in awhile?"

    "Has that possibility Owl. Hello everybody I'm Jimmy Jim.

    One thing I can tell you for sure is that this is President Obama's last chance to prove he is a true champion."

    " Against some formidable opposition according to the rumor mill. What have you heard Jim?"

    " Nothing you haven't Owl. He is one savvy campaigner, I wouldn't rule him out, if he can keep from stumbling. Don't under-estimate his ability to charm and the power of his passionate speeches."

    "We are about to find out folks. The horses are being led to the gates their campaigners coiled and ready to go. THEY'RE OFF! Breaking to the lead early is Obama just like you predicted Jim, but not far in the lead. There's a moderate liberal on his left rear with a Tea Party conservative at his right and a cross-eyed centrist trying to bite his butt.

    Approaching the first turn Obama still hanging onto a slim lead, something is wrong with the board folks. Obama is clearly in the lead but he is being shown second!"

    "I think I see something Owl"

    "What do you see Jim?"

    "Look at the dust rising up by his neck. Wow did you see that?"

    " Such a savage jerk of Obama's head. He almost lost stride folks. I see it Jim, in the dust an outline of a horse. YES! It's Transparency being ridden by True Compromise. Another savage jerk! Obama's falling back, disappearing into the pack. He has dropped to--to- Where is is he Jimmy?"

    "Can't see him Owl"

    "Whats that splotch on the backstretch? Is that a campaigner's crop laying next to it? Yes it is.

    Ladies and gentlemen I have never seen the likes of this before. Obama wasn't beaten by the left or the right, he buried himself with his own lies."

    • 10 votes
    #10.10 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:19 AM EDT
    Marshall James

    here here bravo.....bravo

    • 7 votes
    #10.11 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:30 AM EDT
    Extraterrestrial

    Sweet! LMAO!!! that was excellent owl!!! More! More!

    • 8 votes
    #10.12 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:34 AM EDT
    owlsview

    Thank you.

    • 8 votes
    #10.13 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:39 AM EDT
    Reply
    tesla013

    Ladies and Gents!!!!

    I must leave you all for awhile as my behind is needed at home to prepare for this evening and our rummage sale this weekend. I shall return this evening I hope. Till then keep it on topic, keep it about the topic not your fellow viners. I shall return as soon as I am able. Thank you all for participating.......... tesla013

    • 8 votes
    Reply#11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 2:58 PM EDT
    greck

    I'm totally gonna violate the CoH now that I know you're gone ;-)

    have a good weekend!

    • 3 votes
    #11.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:11 PM EDT
    Virgil Starkwell

    The delete key works on Monday's.

    • 5 votes
    #11.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:05 PM EDT
    Reply
    dbmcc

    President Bush, on his last day in Office told the new President Clinton, that his biggest surprise in being President was how little power the President actually has!

    In our Democracy it is the Congress that has the Power to introduce and pass legislation. More specificly, only the House may introduce Bills dealing with the federal budget, ie, approprations and revenue.

    No legislation will pass in the Senate without a Super Majority. This is because any Senator has the Power to hold up Appointments and Legislation merely by threatening a fillabuster. A fillabuster can be broken only by having 60 votes to "break the fillabuster". Both parties used this rule to prevent legilation from getting to the floor of the Senate, but the Repubs have made an art form out of this and have held all legislation and appointments HOSTAGE despite the fact that they are a minority in the Senate. By this means the Repubs have blocked every initiative by the Democrats to pass meaningful legislation to improve jobs, green energy, protect the environment etc.

    Our Democracy has become a Plutocracy in the last 30 years. A Plutocracy is a Government controlled by the rich. In my opinion, about 90% of the Repubs and 50% of the Democrats are behoden to the Plutocracy. These Politicans who are Servants of the Plutocracy & " Gilbert Norquest" no longer support what is best for the American people but support only programs that are supported by the Plutocracy. Who are the Plutocrats?

    Rich business men like the Koch Brothers and Coors and large Corporations. Through the use of Campaign Money, and Lobbyist they control the Congressional Agenda such as:

    Banking: All regulations, rules, etc. are written to favor the Banking Industry and Wall Street. The Rich get Richer and the rest of us pay the bills.

    Energy: We don't have a comprehensive Energy Policy in this Country because the vested interest in energy such as utilities, oil companies, and chemical companies are only interested in protecting their turf and profits not what is best for America.

    Big Pharma: Again, the Pharmaceudical Companies and Medical Providers want their cut of the pie first and as a consequence our Medical Costs are the most in the World while are medical services rank between 15 and 25th.

    Military-Industrial Complex: America spends more on its Armed Forces than all other Countries of the World put together. Think about it!! Our roads, bridges, highways, airports, dams, water treatment facilities, schools, crumble around us because we don't have the money to repair and build while we spend 700 billion a year, or more on our Armed Forces. We can't afford to send our children to College, or fund research, or respond to Natural Disasters but we have the money to have our Armed forces all over the world.

    These are the prioities of the Plutocrats, they are not the priorities of the American people.

    President Obama took office when our Economy was in Free Fall. He was able to pass a Stimulus Package which included more tax cuts then jobs ininitatives and which got us out of the Free Fall but wasn't big enough to pull us into sustained Grouth. He passed the Affordable Care Act which was a step in the right direction but didn't go nearly far enough because of opposition from the Plutocrats.

    President Obama needs our help. Call your Congressman and tell him/her that you won't take it any more. That America needs jobs and the rich and large corporations need to pay their fair share.

    f

    • 4 votes
    Reply#12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 3:52 PM EDT
    tesla013

    Funny you say that. Have you had occasion to look around the Vine and see the kind of apparent power GWB managed to wield?

    • 5 votes
    #12.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:40 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Call my representatives today and told them to make sure that Obama and his buddies don't try to pull another fast one on us.

    We do not need speed at this point, after all hasn't the economy sucked for three or four years now? What we need is careful action to reestablish confidence from the consumer and business sectors. We don't need spending from the Fed for that.

    • 4 votes
    #12.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:52 PM EDT
    dbmcc

    GWB was part of the Plutocracy! He was financially supported by the Plutocracy. And the Plutocracy supported him on his tax breaks for the Rich, no energy policy, and two wars.

    • 2 votes
    #12.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:22 PM EDT
    owlsview

    Yawn.

    • 5 votes
    #12.4 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:41 AM EDT
    TiG.

    dbmcc

    Historically speaking the idea of a ruling aristocracy is quite common. I do not condone it, but I believe it is healthy for everyone to recognize that pretty much every nation is, in effect, ruled by a minority. It is also healthy to recognize that transnational corporations comprise the world plutocracy and they will (unless things change) continue to increase their effective control of the global economy (and thus nations ... and the people).

    ... America needs jobs and the rich and large corporations need to pay their fair share.

    1. Taxes to large corporations are passed onto consumers
    2. Wanna explain how one nation (even the USA) is going to control transnationals?
    • 6 votes
    #12.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:57 AM EDT
    owlsview

    "Wanna explain how one nation (even the USA) is going to control transnationals?"

    B.H. OBAMA -- Empirical Czar, New World Order.

    That's the answer they want to give you. Scary, isn't it?

    • 7 votes
    #12.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:36 AM EDT
    Reply
    Levon Helm

    He shouldn't be pissed; he should be embarassed.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:00 PM EDT
    G. H.

    I am embarrassed by the whole r/tp group! They have only destruction in mind and could care less for our Country and other americans who reside in it!

    • 3 votes
    #13.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:15 PM EDT
    sjayne2355

    Levon, if he had any self respect he would resign or at least do as Johnson did and not seek reelection...

    • 5 votes
    #13.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:53 PM EDT
    Coral Atlas

    G.H. well said!

    • 1 vote
    #13.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:19 PM EDT
    Extraterrestrial

    sjayne2355 Well said!

    G.H. Gets serious! Do you think the constant slamming of republicans and tea party members gives your comments any kind of credibility? The democrats are just as responsible for the destruction of our country! The tea party is trying to salvage what is left of our constitution! And president Obama is pissed because because he knows this!

    And coral...see! anyone can backslap! But at least I make an educated comment relating to the subject.

    • 7 votes
    #13.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:14 PM EDT
    Virgil Starkwell

    If Obama thinks his roadway reconstruction will happen quickly only demonstrates that he is completely clueless about government contracts. Unless he plans to circumvent the bidding process, which by law requires 3 bids, will take more than a year to even get close to realizing the prospect of deciding who gets a contract for the most simple of bridges and roads.

    First comes the infrastructure of pencil pushers, who's job it is to make sure they get payed for pushing pencils. Then comes the engineering designs which will most likely result in protracted debates over which one is best. Then the environmental impact studies ( which can take years, and could possibly be held up by The Sierra Club in some regions ).

    Then the assignment of sub-contractors, and the logistics of purchasing and transporting materials which may include renting and or leasing storage space for those materials, if they need to be stored on private property due to the lack of state, county and municipal space. And let's not forget the cost of those ever present traffic control, Your Tax Dollars At Work, and Proposed Land Action Use signs, including renting and or leasing barriers, barricades and fencing. Oh, and the additional cost of municipal law enforcement directing traffic month after month, year after year. Those guy's ain't cheap, they're union.

    What ever is left after all those millions have been squandered comes the actual construction, which will be plagued with worker insurance claims, union strikes, cost over runs, and the usual graft and corruption that comes along with the wrong people having access and control of large sums of money. Let the parties begin!

    The City of Seattle for decades has been vacillating over numerous case studies weather or not to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a new surface street solution, or a tunnel. Millions have been spent on contradictory case studies, and the only thing we have to show for it is a big @!$%#ing bill. BTW, the Alaskan Way Viaduct, is less than 2 miles long. Hell, the city can't even fill pot holes, and we have nothing on the Detroit area.

    Obama is out of his mind, and those shovel ready jobs will most likely be spatula ready jobs at McDonalds. Mark my words, he will surpass the debt limit he so vigorously fought for, and put this nation further in the hole because of his last ditch attempt to gain voter support. I'm all for getting folks back to work, but Obama is smoking something quite potent if he thinks his shovel ready construction jobs will materialize before 5 to 10 years.

    • 7 votes
    #13.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:31 PM EDT
    Reply
    Village Idiot-2299796

    I've Replied To This Already ...

    You can read it HERE.

      #14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:03 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Mr. Idiot sir, aren't you a member of Viner's with Honor or something like that? Now you didn't blatantly link to your own column that would have been too brash for even the liberalist of mods to ignore. However diverting attention to a comment you made on one of your best buddies sites is still a violation of the intent of the COH.

      Besides it's not like any non-liberal with half a brain is going to hang out on that execution site your buddy likes to run.

      Hey people PWT ring anybells? LOL.

      • 8 votes
      #14.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:42 PM EDT
      clarke ong

      "Non-liberal with half a brain"

      You said it not me.

      • 2 votes
      #14.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:51 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Golly Mr. Ong you're just as sharp as tack now aren't you. I could say something like that still being better than a liberal with a brain but for the moment I would rather just leave the snarkiness to you and your friends. By the way, when is PWT showing up? Isn't he a bit overdue?

      • 7 votes
      #14.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:06 PM EDT
      clarke ong

      Well, with that marble sharp acumen you display for recognizing snark, why not go back and read some your posts?

      • 2 votes
      #14.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:11 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 8 votes
      #14.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:27 PM EDT
      clarke ong

      Obviously you are quite sleepy. Houseplants will help.

      • 3 votes
      #14.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:29 PM EDT
      Coral Atlas

      Clarke owlsview is as bored with himself as we are with him ;-)

      He's trolling.

      • 3 votes
      #14.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:37 PM EDT
      magnoliaave

      He is not!

      • 5 votes
      #14.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 7:19 PM EDT
      Extraterrestrial

      Owl is more than likely bored with the circular reasoning that the left is so famous for. He don't need to troll! that is the lefts job! they are sooooo good at it!

      So good in fact that Obama is taking that tactic on national TV! He is pissed because no one is taking him seriously anymore. But that is his own fault after all! How many lies has he been caught at? How many promises has he broken? The next thing you know he will be firing an AK in the air going ala la la la la la la! in an attempt to get his point across! (Actually I'm surprised he hasn't done that yet).

      • 8 votes
      #14.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:55 PM EDT
      Randy McMurphy

      ET,
      Comedy, like fact, has a well known liberal bias...

      • 3 votes
      #14.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:27 PM EDT
      Village Idiot-2299796

      Dear Owl ...

      Mr. Idiot sir, aren't you a member of Viner's with Honor or something like that? Now you didn't blatantly link to your own column that would have been too brash for even the liberalist of mods to ignore. However diverting attention to a comment you made on one of your best buddies sites is still a violation of the intent of the COH.

      As you so aptly infer, Rule 2 does indeed prohibit ...

      Self-promotion, seeding links to your own site(s), and advertising ...

      If I may be permitted a few words ...

      • The seed/column in question is not my own.
      • The link contains no advertisement material.
      • The link elicits no personal or fiscal gain.
      • The link does not lead to a 'buddy' site.

      This link goes to another Viner’s work where I post remarks relevant to several comments here. Examples:

      I heard a plea made demand for an end to the political "circus.

      But I believe President Obama's speech continues the theater.

      I must say that I have never heard a President come as close as you did last night, to calling "Bull@!$%#."

      But I believe President Obama's speech falls decidedly short of its supposed accomplishments.

      As it stands, I saw no reason to waste bandwidth with a duplicate post. Is that an infraction? If so, would you please be so good as to indicate the specific point and ground of the same, and I shall proffer my apology gladly.

      Besides it's not like any non-liberal with half a brain is going to hang out on that execution site your buddy likes to run.

      Please don’t imply that non-liberals have half a brain.

      As a democratic socialist, I am no liberal. And while I may not mind the inference myself, other non-liberals, be they socialists or conservatives, may not be as tolerant of your obvious rhetorical flare.

      Have a good one, Owl!

      • 2 votes
      #14.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:28 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 7 votes
      #14.12 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:46 AM EDT
      Village Idiot-2299796

      Dear Owl ...

      So we'll assume that the matter is settled ... No violation occurred. Thank you for that.

      • 2 votes
      #14.13 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:53 AM EDT
      owlsview

      True genius Mr. Idiot. Did you choose that name because you have difficulty reading? Read the quote from me that "you" included in your comment. What does it say about your use of the COH?

      Falsely accusing someone of something is bad enough? Falsely accusing someone of falsely accusing you and then printing a quote that shows your lie is rather idiotic wouldn't you say?

      Maybe your friends should be looking for a new leader. You have been over-exposed.

      • 6 votes
      #14.14 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:46 AM EDT
      Village Idiot-2299796

      Dear Owl ...

      The 'Viners with Honor' group defines itself with reference to the Code of Honor. Your use of capitalization.

      The second point in the Code of Honor prohibits such actions as I described. And you write:

      However diverting attention to a comment you made on one of your best buddies sites is still a violation of the intent of the COH.

      Where have I circumvented the intention of the Code of Honor?

      Affectionately Yours,

      The Village Idiot

      • 1 vote
      #14.15 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:03 AM EDT
      Virgil Starkwell

      The 'Viners with Honor' group defines itself with reference to the Code of Honor.

      That's funny, I know of one member in that group that is a habitual and chronic violator of the CoH, and with minimal effort I could find more. How prestigious could that group actually be?

      I think it's more like 'Viners with no Honor'.

      • 6 votes
      #14.16 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:13 PM EDT
      vol fan in chatt, tn

      well said, Virgil. I took a peek at that group and laughed OUT LOUD!!

      • 5 votes
      #14.17 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:32 PM EDT
      Village Idiot-2299796

      Dear Virgil:

      Generally, people intent on behaving one way won't agree to do otherwise. I'm responsible for myself and not the entire community.

      • 1 vote
      #14.18 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:41 PM EDT
      Mary J 0604

      well said, Virgil. I took a peek at that group and laughed OUT LOUD!!

      lol When that group first started I laughed my ass off at who got credit for starting that group!! They were some of the BIGGEST violators of the CoH!!! lol I haven't bothered looking since. I should go back and look. I could always use a laugh. ;)

      • 6 votes
      #14.19 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:15 PM EDT
      Reply
      jbird

      It was about time he put a scolding tone to congress. I missed the live speech, but I was relieved to hear about this. Boehner was forced back into his seat by the pure energy of it, and couldn't seem to lift his head off the chair back. Maybe that was just the bourbon talking...

      • 1 vote
      Reply#15 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:08 PM EDT
      sjayne2355

      Or maybe the good Congressman was just as tired of hearing the same old speech yet again.

      • 5 votes
      #15.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:54 PM EDT
      clarke ong

      You're claiming Boehner is a good congressman?

      What has he proposed lately to get the economy going?

      • 5 votes
      #15.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:15 PM EDT
      jbird

      The irony is, that the majority of material in the bill, is old repug ideas that they had been willing to stand behind. So sjayne, all your retort is good for, is in pointing out repug hypocrisy.

      • 2 votes
      #15.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:24 PM EDT
      Fed up with Republicans

      The truly funny thing is the Republicans will drag their feet as long as Obama is President but if a Republican gets in those are the same things that they would try and do right away.

      • 1 vote
      #15.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:49 PM EDT
      jbird

      Lets not forget the big one-Boehner did promise to create jobs from the House, somehow. Still waiting...

      • 2 votes
      #15.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 7:43 PM EDT
      Reply
      Stevie-445471

      Some may say President Obama's speech revealed anger. Hmmm I think it was more like righteous indignation. And we should all be very indignant and out raged by the behavior of the Republicans and Tea Party bunch.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#16 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:11 PM EDT
      Bluekilgoretrout

      Yes. And I think most are.

      It's hard enough to watch our kids act this way, but adults?

      • 5 votes
      #16.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:37 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 7 votes
      #16.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:08 PM EDT
      Coral Atlas

      Owlsview .... try oxygen .. it will stop the yawning and less of your brain cells will die as a result .... although it may be too late. ;-)

      Stop trolling. ;-)

      • 2 votes
      #16.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:39 PM EDT
      dbmcc

      Amen.

      • 1 vote
      #16.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:33 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 5 votes
      #16.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:46 AM EDT
      TiG.

      Coral

      and less of your brain cells will die as a result .... although it may be too late. ;-)

      Content is sooo much better than personal insults. How about engaging in a thoughtful debate instead of this elementary school word play?

      • 7 votes
      #16.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:01 AM EDT
      owlsview

      That would be a big surprise.

      • 5 votes
      #16.7 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:48 AM EDT
      Reply
      tesla013

      It has been suggested here that I am Obama bashing. If anyone who believes this would kindly point out where in the article this occurred please post here.....

      Then without apparently reading a word of the piece it was suggested that I did not agree with the Presidents proposal, anyone who is advocating that please post here the words in the article that make that claim. I will be waiting.

      • 5 votes
      #17 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:45 PM EDT
      tesla013

      Still waiting..............

      • 3 votes
      #17.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:39 PM EDT
      Steve Watts

      I can only assume you're referring to me, in which case you're harboring a grudge both after I asked you to clarify what you meant and after you claimed you were leaving. So, sort of weird that you're still here in both cases. But sure, I'll bite.

      I read your article, which didn't seem to take any particular pro- or con- position on the President's proposals. Then I read the first thread, in which you repeatedly accused the President of lack of leadership, claimed he should have used a jobs proposal speech to apologize for the debt ceiling debate, insisted he should've surprised you more, and said his only constant has been to blame Bush.

      Maybe that's not "bashing" Obama, but all-in-all I got the impression that you didn't agree with the president's proposals. A neutral article plus several negative comments led me to that conclusion. So rather than continue down the stupid rhetorical "blame game," I asked to talk about substantial issues. Namely, what exactly do you disagree with? You clarified that you didn't disagree, and that's fine.

      I'm willing to apologize for the presumptuous misunderstanding, but I defy you to take a look at your comments in thread #2 and not at least understand how someone got the wrong impression. Either way, it's past time to let it go, and calling me out with some thinly-veiled passive-aggressive post isn't helping the dialogue here.

      • 3 votes
      #17.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:44 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 6 votes
      #17.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:02 PM EDT
      Steve Watts

      An excellent, mature, and well thought-out post. Thank you for your insights.

      • 1 vote
      #17.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:03 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 5 votes
      #17.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:08 PM EDT
      Fed up with Republicans

      Tesla who cares if you are and Obama basher, I know I don't, we need to get about the business of rebuilding America period that is all that matters.

      • 3 votes
      #17.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:12 PM EDT
      tesla013

      Steve: Actually I did run home for a bit and I am fixin to step out again and go hang signs for the coming headache. I hold no grudge but normally when an assumption is made and is completely without truth the person who has made that assumption generally at least gives a nod towards an apology. My having to call you on it should be a tad embarassing for you. I also found it a tad insulting that you obviously did not even read the piece but decided that you would be the end all for the discussion with your opening remarks. But a grudge? No, that would indicate a deeper involvement on my part here than would be true. Lastly save the mental health analysis for your patients Steve ok?

      • 4 votes
      #17.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:19 PM EDT
      Coral Atlas

      tesla013 ... is that what Steve wrote? A mental health analysis?

      I thought he was just pointing out the hypocrisy in your article and your comments in a very polite way.

      As for me I call it as I see it. You are a staunch supporter of the GOTP or you are against OUR President for anything you can dream up ... least of all anything factual.

      • 1 vote
      #17.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:26 PM EDT
      owlsview

      Yawn.

      • 6 votes
      #17.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:28 PM EDT
      Coral Atlas

      yawn

        #17.10 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:33 PM EDT
        magnoliaave

        I haven't seen any bashing on your part, however, I clearly stated above that I do NOT like him. And, I haven't spoken to anyone in the real world who does. They and I are on go!

        You using OUR President all of the time is overdone. Coral! You claim him.

        • 6 votes
        #17.11 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 7:23 PM EDT
        Steve Watts

        I hold no grudge but normally when an assumption is made and is completely without truth the person who has made that assumption generally at least gives a nod towards an apology. My having to call you on it should be a tad embarassing for you.

        Like I pointed out, your article didn't take a particular stance, but my understanding of your position was informed by your various comments. I think the conclusion was reasonable, even if incorrect, and misunderstandings happen sometimes. You didn't really address the various comments that led me to that conclusion, so I suppose we'll never know whether you understand where I'm coming from.

        At any rate, nah, I'm not really embarrassed by your passive-aggressive playground schtick. Thanks for your concern, though. I'm touched.

        I also found it a tad insulting that you obviously did not even read the piece but decided that you would be the end all for the discussion with your opening remarks.

        First, as I already stated, I read the piece. So at this point you're calling me a liar, which I think is at least as worthy of an apology as making an erroneous conclusion about your position and trying to open up the discussion.

        Second, I saw a thread full of bickering about Obama as a leader, and Obama as a blamer, and Obama as a shrewd politician, and Obama as a spineless jellyfish, and very little discussion of the actual jobs proposal. Maybe you were more interested in talking about broad strokes of what you think of the man, but I was wondering what the people here thought about the specifics of his plan, so I asked. If that insults you, grow a thicker skin.

        But a grudge? No, that would indicate a deeper involvement on my part here than would be true.

        Yes. Calling someone out publicly, waiting around an hour, and then calling them out again is completely normal behavior. How crazy of me to assume you had any emotional investment whatsoever.

        By the way, not to give out more unwarranted advice, but if I were in your position I'd delete all these "yawn" posts -- both the originals and the copycats. I'd mark them each individually as "No Value," but straight deletions seem like it'd be more effective. I know you like to run a tight ship.

        • 2 votes
        #17.12 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:10 PM EDT
        tesla013

        Is that not what you also implied Steve that I am a liar. "After you claimed you were leaving" your words sir. If you wish to start the who did it first game you lose. I left several times. May not have logged off, but was not here. 17.2

        And you are correct I took no stance but you came right in and said. "This article obviously criticizes the Presidents job proposal.." And I know being the author and all that I not only said the Presidents ideas were good ones then went on to say the words were encouraging now either you did not read the piece or your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking. 10

        And once more you can keep your arm chair analysis to yourself. I quite upfront with my aggression thank you. Passive aggressive is for cowards.

        You came in here speaking in a condescending manner without reading the piece insulting not only my work but myself as well. And now you expect manners? Gentlemanly behavior perhaps? Forget it there is nothing more sad than someone whose opinion of themselves overshadows their own common sense. I am sorry if you received bad information from your buddies and came in here thinking that you had been told the whole story. But you are not dealing some awed rookie here sir.

        You wish to be cock of the walk I suggest you stick to your own neighborhood or show a modicum of respect when you are in mine.

        • 6 votes
        #17.13 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:29 PM EDT
        Extraterrestrial

        Very well said tesla! A perfectly good example of attacking the messenger instead of the message!

        • 7 votes
        #17.14 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:05 PM EDT
        Steve Watts

        Is that not what you also implied Steve that I am a liar. "After you claimed you were leaving" your words sir.

        Not really. I presumed you had changed your mind or had your time freed up. If it sounded like I accused you of lying, I apologize. I was just commenting on how it was weird that you were harboring this bizarre grudge after I thought the matter was settled, and when I thought you'd be gone anyway.

        And you are correct I took no stance but you came right in and said. "This article obviously criticizes the Presidents job proposal.."

        Aside from misquoting me, you're right. I shouldn't have said "article," because I was referring to the general tenor of the conversation more than the article itself. That seems like an awfully minor nit to pick, but it's apparently important enough for you to put on this whole victim display, so there you have it. I was wrong to have misused one word while trying to ask for thoughts about a substantial issue.

        And I know being the author and all that I not only said the Presidents ideas were good ones then went on to say the words were encouraging now either you did not read the piece or your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking.

        And as I pointed out, you also claimed he lacked leadership, asked for an apology on a dead issue, asked for vague "surprises," and accused him of constantly blaming Bush. So I read your article, then read your comments, and came to a reasonable conclusion based on both. I thought you were opposed, so I asked why. Frankly, brow-beating me about it after I've explained and apologized is getting tiring, and using your hurt feelings as an excuse to attack me isn't welcome.

        Passive aggressive is for cowards.

        Says the man who called me out personally without mentioning my name and then checked in an hour later. Like it or not, man, that was passive-aggressive. You're calling yourself a coward here.

        You came in here speaking in a condescending manner without reading the piece insulting not only my work but myself as well.

        For the third time, I read your article. I didn't insult your work. I misunderstood your position, but I haven't said a single negative thing about your actual article.

        And I could.

        At any rate, then I read the comment threads. It was quickly devolving into silly bickering about broad presidential issues that had little to nothing to do with the actual jobs proposal. I knew some people here opposed the jobs proposal -- owl definitely, and you possibly -- so I posted a comment asking for feedback on that subject. I phrased it poorly, and I apologize for that, but you're running the gamut from passive-aggressive whiner to outright bully. None of this is making you look good.

        I'm willing to let bygones be bygones, but you're trying extremely hard to drag out a minor misunderstanding into a brawl. It's childish. So suffice it to say, I'll take the high road in an attempt to end this inanity. I apologize for misunderstanding your position and phrasing my comment poorly, and hopefully next time I get into a discussion with you, I'll start it off on the right foot.

        It'd be nice to see similar civility expressed in return. I won't hold my breath.

        • 5 votes
        #17.15 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:20 PM EDT
        owlsview

        Yawn.

        • 6 votes
        #17.16 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:04 AM EDT
        tesla013

        You came to this piece Mr.Watts, the piece did not come to you. You want civility and respect then show some. You came here as the "Adult" here to end all argument, when in fact there was none. You have since spent your time backpedaling and continuing to attempt to shift the blame for your assumptions onto me. You could have spared me and this piece and yourself a lot of grief had you been the adult you keep asking me to be and simply told the truth from jump. Respect is earned not given, you earned nothing here but what you have received.You bought it, happiness with your purchase is on you.

        • 6 votes
        #17.17 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:30 AM EDT
        Steve Watts

        I came here looking for smart discourse on the jobs bill, saw none, and asked for it. If anyone is curious to see this terrible lack of civility and respect, my initial post is here. What a monster I was!

        Since then, I've spent my time apologizing, repeatedly, while being berated by a poster acting like a petulant child over the unfortunate misuse of one word. It's become clear it doesn't matter how many times I apologize; you're an angry man and nothing I say can change that.

        Have a great weekend, tesla.

        • 1 vote
        #17.18 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:39 AM EDT
        owlsview

        The article wasn't written about the bill. How could we possibly talk about the bill when it hadn't been published to the public yet? You have used this tactic before. Stir the pot, encourage others to do so and then claim to be the poor innocent victim.

        If Obama was half as transparent as your techniques are, he wouldn't have near the problems he has now. For a guy who supposedly is so anti-conservative you do an awful lot to make the right-wingers look good.

        Petulance is something you understand quite well therefore it makes a logical choice to use same to communicate with you. Eventually you just might get the message.

        • 7 votes
        #17.19 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:13 AM EDT
        tesla013

        No sir, you came here assuming I had a problem with the Jobs Bill. You said so yourself in your opening line Steve. No one has called you a monster. You were merely called on your base assumption and you have been ever since attempting to deflect attention from that by trying to turn this into some "everybody hates me fest." You did not ask for discourse. You said time to stop the "navel gazing" hardly civil or polite, as if we could not on our own have a rational discussion without your input. Smart money would have let it go two comments ago but you keep trying to turn this into every bodies fault but yours. I will say it once more, you get what you give, your satisfaction with it is entirely on you. You have nice weekend as well sir. I wish you could come man the helm of the rummage sale and I could take a nap.

        • 5 votes
        #17.20 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:22 AM EDT
        Reply
        tyler-1708225

        #17. It's their hypocricy. They have all those seeds on the vine bashing republicans and then whine about how they are owed respect. I don't see you bashing, but why shouldn't you if you choose to do so, they do plenty themselves.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#18 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 4:52 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        There is a difference between criticism and bashing just as there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity.

        • 2 votes
        #18.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:22 PM EDT
        Runner99

        kinda like posting in bold print.

        • 7 votes
        #18.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:54 PM EDT
        owlsview

        Or screaming inanities because nothing intelligent comes to mind.

        • 7 votes
        #18.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:57 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        as I said ... there is a difference between criticism and bashing just as there is a difference between ignorance and stupidity.

        Does anyone have any valid criticism ... do you know what that entails? Like facts?

        I'll help you .. when this President took office we were bleeding 700,000 jobs a month .... read up on economics and explain how the stimulus didn't work for example ... just one of the lies without facts that are slung about.

        While you are at explain to me why the majority of economists disagree with your opinions of OUR Presidents handling ... and if anything explain why the GOTP prevented more stimulus?

        • 2 votes
        #18.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:31 PM EDT
        Boudicea

        Coral - I think it's amusing - so very very very amusing - that you have so much enthusiasm for bashing the Tea Party (You know, those people who actually want to follow OUR Constitution) when you're openly Marxist. THAT is not even an "American" type of government! So YOUR President can be all yours. The rest of us will take a President who lives within the confines of our Constitution.

        • 9 votes
        #18.5 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:36 PM EDT
        sjayne2355

        Coral, when this president took office the Democrats were already in control and running the country into a ditch.

        Obama continues to lead the charge...he is a loser and I pray every night that the good people of this country put him on the unemployment line that he put me on two years ago.

        Just for your information...I have never drawn unemployment. I was a small business owner and had to close because there were no more projects.

        • 5 votes
        #18.6 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:39 PM EDT
        AngusD

        do you know what that entails? Like facts?

        You are incorrect CAtlas. Criticism does NOT require facts, otherwise there would be little need for 'Siscal and Eibert" They are critics, their criticism, like the criticism here are opinions. However, many, probably most can supported by facts in the case of Mr. Obamas fraud, and often are, but to boldly say criticism requires facts, is factually incorrect.

        • 5 votes
        #18.7 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:38 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        kjmgirl ..... Instead of being amused you should acquaint yourself with Marx .... he's not just a name for teapublicans to throw around whenever it's convenient and they want to seem like they know something about him ... which you and they obviously don't.

        I suppose you associate him with Stalin and Lenin also ... and of course "communist" Russia of which you may probably know little of also.

        Russia and China are plutocracies as is America when we don't all elect true representatives and instead end up with corporate stooges ... most in the GOTP. China doesn't allow socialism but gets along quite well with capitalism thank you!

        It's tiring to hear the same old worn out cries of communism and socialism and Marx etc from Americans who provide no proof that they have a clue as to what communism, socialism or Marx are ..

        Just like many here pretend to know anything about economics .... but are just motivated by their own personal problems to make snide remarks which are parroted from white wing talking heads.

        • 5 votes
        #18.8 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:48 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        Sure AngusD, sjayne ... whatever you say ;-) whatever makes you happy ... you are entitled ;-)

        • 2 votes
        #18.9 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:52 PM EDT
        Reply
        tyler-1708225

        #18.1. Coral, having visited your seeds, I suggest you learn the difference and apply it to yourself.

        • 9 votes
        Reply#19 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:46 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        Keep visiting my seeds tyler ... you might learn something as a result ;-)

        • 3 votes
        #19.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:32 PM EDT
        tyler-1708225

        #19.1. I haven't given up yet, Coral, one day you just might surprise me.

        • 3 votes
        #19.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:52 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        save your breath tyler ..... you may not be around that long .... unless you add another digit.

        • 2 votes
        #19.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:54 PM EDT
        Extraterrestrial

        That sounded like a threat coral! Is there someone you know that we don't? Or is that just an angry spur of the moment retort to get the last word in!

        • 7 votes
        #19.4 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:12 PM EDT
        owlsview

        Seen it before E.T When he's whipped he goes into this crazy hip hop thing, real tough guy gangster type. Like that Eminem guy.

        • 6 votes
        #19.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:10 AM EDT
        Extraterrestrial

        I wonder when he will realize that it isn't working for him?

        • 6 votes
        #19.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:46 AM EDT
        Randy McMurphy

        Vote up Coral, Id takes their pettifogging as high praise.

        • 3 votes
        #19.7 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:48 AM EDT
        owlsview

        Nothing but more class warfare from the left. The fact that you consider us to be inferior is well known. Makes it easy for even stupid non-lawyers to expose the snobbery of the "academic elite"

        • 5 votes
        #19.8 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:25 AM EDT
        Randy McMurphy

        *yawn*

        • 1 vote
        #19.9 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:03 PM EDT
        tesla013

        Next time y'all the Red Bull is on me. Y'all need to get more sleep.

        • 4 votes
        #19.10 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:05 PM EDT
        Randy McMurphy

        Tessie

        Its not me its owls tired strawman meme. What what is fodder for a freeperville circle jerk seldom makes sense in the reality based world.

        • 1 vote
        #19.11 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:11 PM EDT
        tesla013

        Tessie? Hoss I ain't nobodies tessie alrighty? Yea well I seem to remember that it is Owl's response to the same exact response he received from one of our more colorful Viners and Owl is, I believe, trying to make a point of just how juvenile the response is.

        • 7 votes
        #19.12 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:19 PM EDT
        Randy McMurphy

        Yawn

        • 3 votes
        #19.13 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:46 PM EDT
        Boudicea

        my dear coral, talking to yyou is completely a waste of time as anyone who does not agree is a teapublican. you sound like a broken marxist record. hahhha. sincerely, a libertarian

        • 8 votes
        #19.14 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:56 PM EDT
        Reply
        Fed up with Republicans

        If we aren't going to try and get out of this recession, they need to go ahead and let the bottom fall out so we can start all over.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#20 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 5:50 PM EDT
        owlsview

        Tesla, I have seen you write things offering solutions to problems, serious thought and open-mindedness. Most of the time you get ignored.

        Today you wrote a lightweight review primarily dealing with the reactions of those listening to Obama's speech in person. Voila, you mention the President's name and you are suddenly the host of a prog/lib conservative bashing party. Made for some good entertainment, but it has given me a bad case of the yawns.

        It is getting late and I have run out of time for these Romper Room games. Perhaps next time you could provide a slightly higher class of thinkers than you had today. You might also want to include an itinerary of your planned movements next time. Being here when somebody things you aren't just isn't playing fair at all do you think?

        Stay safe and have a good weekend.

        Yawn.

        Hoot!Hoot!

        • 6 votes
        Reply#21 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 6:53 PM EDT
        Robert in Ohio

        Tesla

        Interesting article

        I watched the speech, the entire speech and listened carefully for the new ideas, the "go big or go home" ideas that have been touted leading up to the speech and there was nothing new there.

        Are the ideas bad? Not really, there is good to come of some of those ideas but they come at a cost that must also be balanced.

        For instance the payroll tax cuts put extra money in the pocket of the employees and the employers, but seriously degrade the flow of revenue into the social security fund which is already facing solvency issues in the out years and needs to be reformed. The good outcome of this is that many of the employees will spend the money and increase consumption, but there is no guarantee that small business owners will take risks based on another temporary change to the tax code, they may just hold onto the money and wait for tax code reform.

        I (like everyone) thinks it is a great idea to hire veterans, the unemployed and hte long term unemployed but temporary tax changes will lead to temporary hiring if any.

        Block granting money to the states to "temporarily" add to the local and state public sector union work forces is a two-edged sword; no one really argues with the fact that more teachers and more firefighters and more policemen are good things, but when the temporary money runs out the states again will lay them off. Long term solutions to state work forces and budgets need to be implemented not temporary fixes.

        Infrastructure bank - again no reasonable person disagrees that our infrastructure needs to be refurbished and/or replaced but why create another government organization (bank) to be involved, why not use the existing bank structure with loan guarantees to the private sector to undertake these projects.

        The American Jobs Act was about a single job, Obama's and his fervent desire to keep it.

        Thanks for the article voted up.

        • 6 votes
        Reply#22 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 7:43 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        Robert do you want violin music or a harp?

        All of what you say is couched in one thing you attempt to get across ... that your smarter than OUR President.

        Now why do you need to feel superior to OUR President Robert?

        All those years under the thumb of the corpocracy? Trading freedom for Job security?

        Laws that forced human relations departments to treat everyone as equals? Even blacks and women?

        ;-)

        What new excuse are you going to invent when it all balances out will you get creative or just parrot Boehner and McConnell CYA as usual.

        • 3 votes
        #22.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:02 PM EDT
        tesla013

        Thank You Robert for the fine additional commentary.

        • 4 votes
        #22.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:50 PM EDT
        sistagirl

        Coral. . You right, this is a hit piece.

        • 3 votes
        #22.3 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:06 PM EDT
        owlsview

        Do you have a song about the President's speech for us?

        • 5 votes
        #22.4 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:12 AM EDT
        tesla013

        Really sistagirl? Did you bother to read the piece?? Several people already have been caught with various parts hanging in the wind because they did not bother too. So how is this a hit piece sista?? Please explain.

        • 8 votes
        #22.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:35 AM EDT
        owlsview

        Stagefright?

        • 5 votes
        #22.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:27 AM EDT
        Robert in Ohio

        Coral

        No I am not smarter than the president, far far from it.

        I have great admiration for his scholarly achievements, including multiple degrees and a teaching stint at Chicago.

        I think he would be great in academia and that he is a good author.

        I was never under anyone's thumb and totally enjoyed by time in Human Resources, helping people in their careers, helping our company find the right people as we grew and partnering with community organizations to help where we could.

        Coral you seem always bitter about something, but I am quite content with my life, what I have done and what I am doing now.

        You attack when you have nothing substantive to add to the debate and we are all getting used to the tactic. So go ahead attack, spin and deflect and I will continue to make the comments that I feel are relevant to the topic at hand.

        Oh and not to forget your question, I like violin music very much

        • 5 votes
        #22.7 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:58 PM EDT
        Coral Atlas

        ;-)

          #22.8 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
          Robert in Ohio

          Coral

          A great response

          Thanks

          • 3 votes
          #22.9 - Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:22 PM EDT
          TiG.

          Robert

          What did you expect? I am surprised Coral even posted a reply.

          You attack when you have nothing substantive to add to the debate and we are all getting used to the tactic.

          Exactly.

          • 6 votes
          #22.10 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:35 AM EDT
          Robert in Ohio

          TiG

          I thank him for a great response

          The quoted text is accurate

          Thanks for the feedback

          • 3 votes
          #22.11 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:43 AM EDT
          TiG.

          Robert

          The quoted text is accurate

          I agree, it is quite accurate; I quoted it because your words are spot on. Of course there are several other transparent Coral tactics in active use as well but I am going to let you 'carry your own water' on what those tactics might be. ;-)

          You are patient beyond words with Coral.

          (I think you may have misunderstood the meaning of my post.)

          • 3 votes
          #22.12 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:24 PM EDT
          Robert in Ohio

          TiG

          I think I did and you that I apologize

          • 3 votes
          #22.13 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:16 PM EDT
          Reply
          dbmcc

          Hey, SJAYNE: The Great Recession started under Bush. Wall Street fraud got us into this mess. The Recession was in full swing when President Obama came into office.

          You must be a masochist if you want more of the same delivered by Bush and the Plutocrats.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#23 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 8:27 PM EDT
          sjayne2355

          Hey, DBMCC: The Great Recession started when the Democrats were elected to the House and Senate, and Obama was one of the freshman Senators who helped the mess along.

          I would take my life under Bush back in a second...I was running a successful company, enjoying a wonderful life style. All gone with the advent of Obama.

          I am looking forward to seeing Obama defeated in November of next. I will make me one happy little masochist!

          • 5 votes
          #23.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 9:33 PM EDT
          dbmcc

          Hey SJAYNE: Twice you have blamed Obama for your business failing. Please explain in details how the U.S. President caused your business to fail. When and How?

          • 2 votes
          #23.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:55 PM EDT
          owlsview

          sjayne2355 Nice job of avoiding being lured far enough off topic to become reportable to the author as a COH risk.

          • 6 votes
          #23.3 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:15 AM EDT
          dbmcc

          Yea, Right! Don't provide facts or specifics that may form the basis for a real debate. Rather, just throw barbs or insults and pat each other on the back for being juvenile.

          The Great Recession started in August, 2008, when the Sub-Prime Housing Market started to unravel. Bush was President and Henry Paulson was Secretary of the Treasury.

          Obama was running for election...he was not in charge.

            #23.4 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:55 AM EDT
            TiG.

            dbmcc

            The Great Recession started in August, 2008, when the Sub-Prime Housing Market started to unravel. Bush was President and Henry Paulson was Secretary of the Treasury.

            Who controlled the Legislative branch (the 110th Congress) in 2008 (and in 2007)? If you want to assign blame then at least include all the likely candidates in your 'analysis'.

            • 6 votes
            #23.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:08 PM EDT
            Reply
            sistagirl

            So it's about lets blame Obama for lack of leadership, lack of a plan, lack of this, that and everything in between and in the meantime those poor picked on repubs and teapartiers have been sooooo innocent and patiently waiting to be led by him. Please! The republican leadership has from the start of his election done everything they could to impede, sabotage thru fillibusters, lie, derail and repeal everything Obama. From calling him illegitimate, socialist, Kenyan, inept, idiotic, dithering, etc. but despite all that, he is not suppose to get angry and continue to work with this group of haters in a positive manner. And this author has the nerve to expect him to speak gentily with them as they scheme to do Mitch McConnell's number one goal. Yep, your'e not asking for much!

            • 3 votes
            #24 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:03 PM EDT
            Virgil Starkwell

            So it's about lets blame Obama for lack of leadership, lack of a plan, lack of this, that and everything in between

            Yes.

            • 7 votes
            #24.1 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 10:38 PM EDT
            Extraterrestrial

            sistagirl

            So it's about lets blame Obama for lack of leadership, lack of a plan, lack of this, that and everything in between

            YUUUUUP! You summed it up in a nutshell!! There may be hope for you after all!

            • 8 votes
            #24.2 - Fri Sep 9, 2011 11:25 PM EDT
            owlsview

            Re-read the article, it's about the attitude portrayed by those in attendance at the President's speech.

            A few minutes ago on the local news I heard an item that is specifically on target.

            A recording has been released of the conversation being had by Vice-President Biden and Speaker Boehner. Two of the most powerful men in gov't. representing parties that for all intents and purposes are diametrically opposed to each other. The President is about to speak on the subject most important to the American people who are watching intently.

            They were talking about their golf games.

            Tesla, I do believe that validates what you have been saying all day.

            • 8 votes
            #24.3 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:30 AM EDT
            tesla013

            You know the old saying Owl: Watch and learn right?

            • 8 votes
            #24.4 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:36 AM EDT
            owlsview

            Does that apply to everybody or just conservatives?

            • 6 votes
            #24.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:28 AM EDT
            dbmcc

            Where is the Republican plan to save the economy. Create jobs? Provide a future for Americans we will all be proud of?

              #24.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:58 AM EDT
              owlsview

              They probably don't have one. Do you actually expect them to be anymore capable than the Democrats?

              Where is Obama's plan? So far all he has done is make a speech saying he has one.

              • 6 votes
              #24.7 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:21 PM EDT
              Extraterrestrial

              He is all talk! I thought he was going to reveal his plan on national TV! All he did was a campaign speech! How disappointing! All we have for president is an empty suit!

              • 6 votes
              #24.8 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:30 PM EDT
              tesla013

              The republican plan is currently in an undisclosed location.

              • 6 votes
              #24.9 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:06 PM EDT
              Virgil Starkwell

              Obama said there would be no more boondoggles, I wonder if he was talking about this one.

              http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/02/02/wine-train-stimulus-scam-gets-even-uglier-with-no-bid-set-aside-swindle/

              Fiscal conservatives have been howling in protest over the $54 million earmarked by Obama’s Stimulus Package to finance something called “The Wine Train” in California’s scenic Napa Valley. The notion that the government was squandering millions of taxpayer dollars to prop up a private tourist attraction seemed to epitomize everything that was wrong with pork-barrel politics masquerading as sober economic policy. I mean, while we’re subsidizing tourist traps, why not give a couple hundred million to Disneyland to build a new “Pirates of the Potomac” ride?

              http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2441805/posts

              the Wine Train transports tourists from Napa to St. Helena

              http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/the-millionaires-guide-to-buying-the-napa-dream

              Rep. Nancy Pelosi owns a vineyard in St. Helena and is developing a winery.

              This is an example of what I mentioned in my previous post.

              http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/article_76716036-1acc-5edc-97dd-aad1be24372c.html

              When an Alaskan native corporation was awarded a $65 million contract last month for the next phase of the Napa flood project, a regional contractor cried foul.

              Bob Brosamer, owner of R&L Brosamer, told the Register that despite his excellent track record on earlier flood work, he had not been given an opportunity to bid on the project.

              Instead, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers awarded a no-bid contract to Suulutaaq Inc., a small construction arm of an Alaskan native corporation eligible for federal minority contracts.

              Once the corps decided to go with Suulutaaq, Brosamer said he was similarly aced out of bidding for railroad bridge work that represents the majority of the $65 million contract.

              Are we to expect Obama to handle his new jobs bill in an honest and professional manner as his term is coming to an end? Frankly, if half of the money he needs to pull off his new scams actually puts people back to work it will be a miracle.

              • 6 votes
              #24.10 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:57 PM EDT
              Mary J 0604

              blame Obama for lack of leadership, lack of a plan, lack of this, that and everything in between

              Well said sistagirl!!!! ;)

              • 7 votes
              #24.11 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:27 PM EDT
              Virgil Starkwell

              The republican leadership has from the start of his election done everything they could to impede, sabotage thru fillibusters, lie, derail and repeal everything Obama.

              Think about your comment for a moment sistagirl. Somebody needs to carry the torch and put the brakes on Obama. If Republicans didn't do those things they would be Democrats.

              As for Right wing lies, Obama has lied about so many aspects of his life he wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass.

              • 7 votes
              #24.12 - Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:48 PM EDT
              SuperSaiyan

              As for Right wing lies, Obama has lied about so many aspects of his life he wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass.

              As opposed to the far right not acknowledging actual facts even after their assertions have been disproven.

              • 1 vote
              #24.13 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:04 PM EDT
              Virgil Starkwell

              Oh, there's plenty of proof, obvious proof. Proof the Left chooses to be willfully ignorant of. Proof that no lawmaker has the balls to do anything about. And that's what's it's all about, nobody having the balls to do anything about it. The lies have come out of Obama's own mouth. Lies the Right couldn't dream of. If you pull up the same videos many on the Right have pulled up for quite some time SS, you will discover Obama is a pathological liar.

              This video is interesting, in that Obama claims his parents after meeting in a march in 1965 decided to have a child in 1961. 1961 is Obama's birth date, right?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdYByptC8mY

              In the video above Obama claims his father took part in the Kennedy African student airlift.

              This article exposes the truth.

              http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=125351

              Official documents catch Barack Obama in another apparent misrepresentation of his life story, this time challenging a claim made during his campaign that his father was part of a JFK-era airlift to bring Kenyan students to the U.S. to study in American universities.

              By the time of the Sept. 9, 1959, airlift to New York City, Barack Obama Sr. was already in Honolulu, enrolled in classes as an undergraduate at the University of Hawaii.

              WND previously published official affirmation from the University of Hawaii that Barack Obama Sr. was enrolled for the 1959 fall term.

              The first article documenting Barack Obama Sr.'s presence in Hawaii was by journalist Shurei Hirozawa in the Honolulu Star Bulletin on Sept. 18, 1959, only nine days after the Jackie Robinson airlift.

              Tip of the iceberg SS.

              • 5 votes
              #24.14 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:01 PM EDT
              Virgil Starkwell

              BTW, I've read many comments on the vine about how great Obama is at giving speeches. That's all fine and good if the people who hold that opinion realize that Obama does not write his speeches, only reads them. It's events like the Selma speech where it's obvious he does poorly speaking off the cuff, and trying to adlib.

              This is where he shoots himself in the foot. If you watch the video closely it's obvious his comments become more disjointed as he grasps at any though that pops into his head. This particular speech was clumsy at best, and only demonstrates Obama isn't any more intelligent than Bush. One would think since Obama as a man of letters and a published writer, would be more eloquent, rather than make wild unsubstantiated errors regarding his own timeline history, including the history of the United States.

              Recently Bachmann was lambasted by the Left for refusing to debate a high school girl. I'll go out on a limb and wager that young lass knows there is not 57 states in the union.

              • 4 votes
              #24.15 - Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:13 AM EDT
              Reply
              AngusD

              This was a good and valid article. I don't understand all the systemic defense of something that was so obvious. The President was angry, again, still whatever. The lack of interest in his well read words is nothing to be defensive about. The few who attended have heard all these words before beginning in 2007. I hope and pray that he does actually follow up with actual ideas and specific details, but I am doubtful that he will. His game has always been to read the good words, blame others then retreat to paradise while others have to do the heavy lifting. This allows him to return in a week, fire up the teleprompter and say "see, I tried but nothing is happening", poor me, I'm just the President, what do you want from me." I hope I'm wrong, but I am confident that I'm not. He is not a leader, but he is an excellent 'human resource' generalist.

              • 4 votes
              Reply#25 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:04 AM EDT
              dbmcc

              AngusD: Please read my previous post on 9/9 #12 for why the President is handicapped. Please respond to that Post with your arguments based on facts and I'll be happy to respond to same.

                #25.1 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:02 PM EDT
                TiG.

                dbmcc

                First you need to make up your mind as to who you believe actually has control over the economy (as if any entity controls the global economy). You blame Bush for the 2008 crisis (with a D Legislative branch in full operation) but a few posts later you blame the R House (with a D Senate) for rendering the POTUS impotent.

                Sounds like apologist work to me.

                The best Obama and friends can do is address conditions which impede domestic business. That, I believe, would positively influence the economy (allow it to complete its recovery). Obama suggests that he will do just that in his speeches. Great! Let's see the plan. And if there is a plan that matches the rhetoric why did he not enact this in 2009 instead of chasing his health care tail?

                Yeah ... I am just a tad skeptical at this point.

                • 6 votes
                #25.2 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:23 PM EDT
                dbmcc

                TIG: As I said previously, our Congress is controlled by big business and the rich. I call this a Plutocracy, and again the Plutocracy is made up of BIG CORPORATIONS, MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS, AND THE UPPEB RICH.

                The Plutocracy controlls Congress through the Election Process. They provide the money to those Congressman that they can count on protecting their interest! They back this up with a lobbying system that they pour millions of dollars into to make sure that any legislation that passes doesn't hurt their bottom line and that protects the status quo. If legislation does pass that is not to their complete liking, they continue to lobby until the legislation is gutted one way or another. For example, they manage to cut funding to that organization so it is unable to function as proposed.

                  #25.3 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:43 PM EDT
                  TiG.

                  dbmcc

                  Apparently you did not read my post @12.5 where I have already responded to the post you mentioned and directly addressed the notion of plutocracy.

                  My post @24.2 focused on your posts which on one hand claim Obama has his hands tied by an R House with a D Senate but apparently Bush was able to overpower his D House and D Senate.

                  Does not compute.

                  • 6 votes
                  #25.4 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:03 PM EDT
                  dbmcc

                  Bush is a member of the Plutocracy. He was an oil man in Texas. He was supported by the Plutocrats. Remember the Plutocrats win if there is status quo.

                  Remember, that the Senate cannot move any legislation that the Plutocrats want to block unless the Senate has 60 votes! It is very difficult to get 60 votes in the Senate. It is not enough to have 51 votes in the Senate or 56, etc. you must have 60 or more to overcome a fillibuster.

                  Also, I never said that the Democrats are pure. They also as a party are compromised by the Plutocrats.

                  What did Bush accomplish? 1. He gave the Rich and Corporations two hugh tax breaks. Then he started two unfunded wars. He past Part D. of Medicare Prescription Drug coverage without bothering to fund it. The program has helped seniors but it also was a boon to the Pharmaceudical Industry because it made no attempt to bargain down prescription costs.

                  He did nothing to improve job growth during his 8 years in office! Clinton created 23 Million jobs in his 8 years when the taxes were higher for individuals and corporations.

                  Both Political Parties allowed the loosening of Regulations on Wall Street which eventuallly led to the collaspe of the economy. We are all paying a high price for this collaspe except for Wall Street which got bailed out by the Government.

                    #25.5 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:03 PM EDT
                    TiG.

                    dbmcc

                    You seem to be all over the map here. I have pointed out a glaring inconsistency in your posts. Again, to be clear, on one hand you claim Obama's hands are tied by Congress yet on the other hand blame Bush for the crisis of 2008. Bush + D House + D Senate juxtaposed with Obama + R House + D Senate. Please explain. Seems as though Bush in his lame duck years with a D Congress would be less able to effect action than Obama in his first 2 2/3 years with a split Congress. Especially if we consider that all of Congress was D for his first two years and he entered office with rock star status and massive political capital.

                    As for your post, some selective comments ...

                    Bush is a member of the Plutocracy. He was an oil man in Texas. He was supported by the Plutocrats. Remember the Plutocrats win if there is status quo.

                    So you are suggesting that Bush is in the inner circle and Obama is just a plutocratic pawn? I submit neither is in a position of power in this context.

                    Remember, that the Senate cannot move any legislation that the Plutocrats want to block unless the Senate has 60 votes! It is very difficult to get 60 votes in the Senate. It is not enough to have 51 votes in the Senate or 56, etc. you must have 60 or more to overcome a fillibuster.

                    The plutocrats (as you suggest next) are pulling the strings in both parties. Fillibuster tactics relate to partisan politics, not true power.

                    What did Bush accomplish? .... He did nothing to improve job growth during his 8 years in office! Clinton created 23 Million jobs in his 8 years when the taxes were higher for individuals and corporations.

                    This really has nothing to do with the question at hand. So other than partisanship why are you comparing Bush and Clinton? Both of them are either powerless or powerful - that is the question on the table, right? Is the POTUS able to effect change or is the political power really just in Congress? Forget about the aristocracy for the moment - we know they hold the true power; we are talking now about political power and you have yet to resolve your contradiction in that matter.

                    Both Political Parties allowed the loosening of Regulations on Wall Street which eventuallly led to the collaspe of the economy. We are all paying a high price for this collaspe except for Wall Street which got bailed out by the Government

                    Yes both parties and indeed multiple administrations and multiple congresses all made boneheaded decisions that enabled the crisis. Politicians in general let us down while irresponsible private sector meatheads took full advantage of short-term grabs for gold with long term dire consequences. One more thing, the government did not bail out Wall Street - taxpayers (and future generations of same) did. I am certain you understand the nuance but I wanted to just put in on the record.

                    • 5 votes
                    #25.6 - Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:00 PM EDT
                    Reply
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